Coming Soon

Coming Soon

Peter King:                          Welcome to the PK Experience. This is Peter King. I'm the host of the show, and in this episode, I sit down again with Justin Patrick Pierce. Now the first time that he and I spoke in an earlier episode we talked all about the masculine experience, and in this episode we're going to be talking about the feminine experience.

Justin's an expert in sacred intimacy, which obviously is the union of the masculine and feminine, and he's co-authored a book with his fiancee called, The Awakened Woman's Guide to Everlasting Love. So I'm going to keep this intro very short and sweet. There's a lot of really great information in this, and I think there's value in looking at the feminine experience through a masculine lens. If that tends to bother you at all, bear with it, because again, there is a lot of value here that you can garner out of this, by looking at the feminine experience through masculine perspective.

With that, let's go ahead and dive in.

Justin Patrick Pierce, welcome back, man. You're the first podcast interview that I'm doubling up on. This is the second interview that we've done, so welcome back to the show. I appreciate it.

Justin Pierce:                     Yeah, you got it, Peter. Thanks for having me.

Peter King:                          So one of the reasons why I wanted to invite you back is number one, A, I got a lot of great feedback from the first call that we did. And then I've been working with a lot more women lately, doing a lot more coaching. I'm in some online groups on Facebook that are primarily women-focused, and helping them better understand the relationship dynamics between men and women, and the masculine and the feminine. You referenced to me a book that you co-wrote with your, now wife? Or still fiancee? Did you guys get married?

Justin Pierce:                     Yeah, we're not officially married. We've been together now, 10 years. So, we're engaged.

Peter King:                          Excellent.

Justin Pierce:                     Waiting for the perfect time. And actually have a little girl on the way we just found out about.

Peter King:                          Oh, congrats dude.

Justin Pierce:                     So we're 20 weeks pregnant.

Peter King:                          That's great, man. Congratulations on that.

Justin Pierce:                     Thank you. We're excited.

Peter King:                          So you co-wrote this book with your fiancee. What's her name again?

Justin Pierce:                     London Angel Winters, is her name.

Peter King:                          London, okay.  And it's called the Awakened Women's Guide to Everlasting Love. So I thought you would be a great person to get some more experience, and understanding on the feminine journey, because I've really been focusing more on the masculine journey the last several year, and I'm now getting more into that feminine space.

So first and foremost, I need to ask you because some of the women were asking, why you, as a man, are you able to comment on the experience of the feminine journey?

Justin Pierce:                     Well, it's actually interesting. In the book, my partner London speaks very much for the feminine heart, and from the feminine. And my commentary in the book is a reflection of what that experience is like through the masculine. So I understand the principles and philosophies regarding feminine practice, and I even have my own feminine practices that I do. Because it doesn't matter if you're a man or woman, you can cultivate these qualities and they're profoundly useful in either man or woman's lives. Just as a woman can cultivate that masculine side.

So I understand a lot about the concepts, I coach women, I coach couples, and I would never say that I fully understand the feminine experience.

Peter King:                          Yes. Yeah, I think first and foremost the perspective of the feminine through the eyes of the masculine is infinitely invaluable for women, for one. Also as a man, to know that we have a feminine energy as a feminine spirit within us that we can connect to and understand is also, certainly has merit. But, I agree with you. I think that there's nothing that can replace ... I was just talking with someone last night. There's no way I can begin to fathom the experience of carrying a child within me, and having that grow within me and then birthing it. That to me is just, ingrained at such a spiritual, and of course biological level in women that, when it comes to the feminine and the idea of love, I think they in their fullest, in their most mature, are the ones to look to, to lead in that respect.

And I look to women in that respect, from a sense of leadership in love and those feminine qualities. Even though, I inherently have them too. Would you agree with that?

Justin Pierce:                     Well, yeah. One thing that London and I say a lot is, in most situations, the feminine is the leader of love and relationship. And what London and I teach is, we describe these qualities of embodiment. So you're a man, but you could learn to embody more flow into your life, more radiance into your life. You can begin to become more heart-centered and sensitive in your life. And a lot of men ar doing this these days. Men's groups, yoga, things that sensitize a masculine body is the cultivation of that feminine ... Those feminine qualities of love, of nurture. Stay-at-home dads are very much diving into that experience.

So we've got more and more men in today's generation playing the notes of that feminine scale, and we also have many women who are playing the notes that were traditionally thought of as masculine notes.

Peter King:                          Yes.

Justin Pierce:                     Which is being purpose-driven, having a mission in life, going out into the world, earning a living, having a career, earning money, bringing structure to a household. Women under 30, there's now stats that say they're making more money than men. So now that we have this playing field where both men and women are learning these embodiments of either or, London and I have further and further stepped away from the traditional gender roles of the shoulds of a masculine and feminine and we say, "Well, we've got piano keys in front of us, from alpha to omega." And we use the word alpha when you're in that more masculine drive or work mode, go mode, business mode, and omega, when you're in that loving receptive mode.

So now as practitioners, London and I, we both cultivate these two qualities consciously, simultaneously, and that's part of the art we bring.

Peter King:                          I think, what you guys are doing is great because one of the things that I have found just in talking with people, and just frankly observing where we're at culturally, is a disconnect I think with the different roles that we ought to play in relationships, in our communities, in our culture, in our politics, et cetera. And you can't negate the growth that's happened over the last several decades, especially with women. Women are obviously much more empowered today. There is no regression back to an old dynamic that maybe in some sense, in a traditional sense, worked. There was a masculine feminine polarity that worked to some degree. And yet we have evolved, so I really honor the fact that you guys are taking a more modern approach and say, "Great. We've evolved. What does that look like today?"

This was actually the conversation I was having last night with a friend. What does that look like today? Because I often do find that many relationships have been broken down because the woman is more in her masculine, and the man is more in his feminine. First question, do you think that a relationship can sustainably work with a man that is most often in his feminine, and a woman who's most often in her masculine?

Justin Pierce:                     Absolutely. If they're operating from their authentic essence. If they're operating out of fear, if the man is in a closure because he's afraid to show his power or he doesn't have confidence to show his drive, and he's living in that feminine collapsed expression, then no. He will suffer and she will suffer. If she's living in her alpha, which is I'm at work, I'm taking care of things because I don't trust him, I don't trust the masculine at all, and I need to do this from fear or lack, then yes, that's a toxic dynamic. But it's toxic just individually let alone in a partnership. And if you're relating from that place, you'll attract a partner who is reciprocally as collapsed as you.

But, if there's an authentic identification that a man actually loves being the one that brings romance and love to the dynamic, loves being the one that stays at home and nurtures the children, and the woman loves being a kick-ass career woman, and being in the world, and that's their authentic come from, you can thrive inside of that dynamic.

Peter King:                          I understand that that theoretically can work. It's been my experience that that's very, very rare. I've met people who supposedly have been very progressive where the woman's out slaying dragons and bringing home the bacon, and he's at home taking care of the kids, and the dynamic is just off. I think it's more to what you were ... The reality is, at least from what I've seen, is that dynamic in practice seems to be more coming from a place of collapsed fear than it is in authenticity.

Justin Pierce:                     Right. Well, you have to remember the most important thing is you have to be conscious of the way you're relating to your partner. So if any of this is happening and you're unconsciously relating to your partner, it doesn't matter what the dynamics are. There's gonna be suffering and dissonance in the relationship. The only resolve is actually becoming hyper-aware of how you're relating to your partner.

So London and I use what's called the Three Ways of Relating. We created this. The three ways of relating suggests this. Life is complex and you can be in a number of different states and moods, but let's just say for simplicity, to make this as easy as possible, that you could only be in one state or the other, which means you're either in alpha or omega. You're either the structure of the moment, in charge of the moment, leading the moment, or you're lounging, enjoying life, following, letting your partner figure out the directions, or set up the date, or take you out. So you're only identifying with either alpha or omega at all times.

Peter King:                          At all times, okay.

Justin Pierce:                     At all times. If that's true, there's only three ways you can ever relate to your partner. One is alpha alpha. You're both in business mode, so my partner and I do this all the time. We're both business partners, we both earn a living, we both make money together, we both pay bills together, and we both write books together. So that takes us booting up and working together to accomplish a mission. It's great. It's the power couple dynamic.

Now, what one needs to understand, is when you're in that resonance, you will not have sexual polarity present.

Peter King:                          So, speak real quick to the ... You mentioned the word resonance in the book. Tell the listeners what you mean by resonance.

Justin Pierce:                     Resonance is when you and your partner are in the same mode, either alpha alpha, or omega omega. So if you're both in work mode, and you're both raising kids together, you're both paying bills together, you're both out in the world making money together, and you're both purpose-driven, you're gonna be in the same mode. So it'll feel great when you're in those business partner modes. You might even bump heads, and argue a lot too, always jockeying for the lead, who's in charge. But it's very productive and practical.

The problem is in resonance, you won't have that sexual attraction, that sexual spark present. So if you're unconscious you're doing this, after months, after years, you just feel like I'm not attracted to this person anymore. And you wonder where the spark went.

But, if you understood that all you would need is to bring polarity back to the picture, you can literally re-establish polarity in 10 minutes. What London and I do with all of our clients, we teach you how to do this in 10 minutes. It's absolutely possible. And you can reset attraction in a moment. It's biological. It's like physics of intimacy.

But that means one partner has to be an alpha, and one has to be an omega. One has to be the lead, commanding the moment, and one actually has to allow their spine to soften, to receive their partner's breath, to receive their partner's guidance, their direction. So as long as you create that, you will have intimacy. And it doesn't matter who's doing it, man or woman. You can create that.

But we all have our authentic preference. We all align in one direction or the other. So there's alpha alpha, which is powerful partners, power couple. There's alpha omega which is intimate partners. And then there's omega omega, where your guy is empathetic to your feelings, and you can feel like best friends going on dates, and you love talking to each other, and you love rubbing each other's feet, but you don't really feel that fiery, passionate sex taking place.

So a lot of couples will get stuck in their own routine, and then just look over a few weeks or months later and say, "Well, what happened? Where is it?" It's because they're unconscious of how they're relating and they're getting stuck in their patterns, and all they would need to do is learn how to bring polarity back in any moment.

Peter King:                          So you mentioned a 10-minute process. Can you give us an overview of what that actually is?

Justin Pierce:                     Yeah. Both partners would learn first how to become present. So in the book we describe three pillars of sacred relationship. First one's presence. If neither partner can get out of their own head or their own cell phone or their own email, so distracted from life, if you can't just lock eyes with your partner and give them your full presence, you can't create deep intimacy. You'll be so distracted, you'll be disembodied and maybe you'll come together sexually and it could be fulfilling because you'll just create some friction, feel a sexual release, and then you're like, "Ah, good." But it's lacking the depth mostly that the feminine really needs. Most men don't need the level of presence and time and unfolding that a feminine body needs. Men are pretty much ready to go at any time. They don't need their heart to flower open before their cervix opens. They don't have that process. The feminine does, and as men, we need to become hyper-conscious of that if we're serious about creating deep intimacy with the opposite sex. Because otherwise, her body's not actually ready from the inside out, for us to unite.

So first, it starts with presence. That looks like eye contact, breath, and there's specific practices. London and I have actually audio practices in the book you could download, for free. And they guide you through this. And then from there, you have to bring in what I described, polarity. So first you need presence as pillar one, then bringing polarity is pillar two. So one of you takes the lead, one of you straightens your spine, one of you is directing the moment. The other one receives the direction. The other one is able to soften their spine and just let themselves feel vulnerable. If emotions come up, whatever's present for you, you allow that to be seen.

So until a feminine body can actually fully express itself, it's not ready for love. Once it feels seen at the deepest layers, and is given permission to be at its own time, that heart to feel whatever it's feeling and that be okay, the body will begin to open in a way it normally never gets an opportunity to. And your intimate partner can give that to you. And that's what this work is all about.

Peter King:                          If I can go off on a little bit of a tangent, because I'm curious to get your feedback on this. Because on one hand, we're talking about the qualities of the masculine and feminine, qualities that both men and women can demonstrate, express, embody. On the other hand, you are talking about deeply biological wirings. You're talking about the cervix opening. You're talking about the softening of the spine.

I read somewhere that even in homosexual relationships, men in gay relationships will have, literally I think the average is hundreds of partners, and women in a lesbian relationship will only have a small handful. So there's still what I would consider a biological rootedness in a woman's body and a man's body. A man's body sexually is designed to spread a seed, and there's that drive. A woman's body, obviously designed to open up.

So just to push back a little bit and challenge that notion that ... Aren't we still men and women? Isn't that still-

Justin Pierce:                     Of course.

Peter King:                          And therefore, isn't there a core ... Isn't a man's core always going to be masculine, and a woman's always gonna be feminine? I know that seems traditional, but at the same time I look at the body and I go, "I'll never know what it is to grow a person inside me. I'll never know that openness that it ... I'll never know the cycle, the monthly cycle. I won't know the emotional turmoil."

Justin Pierce:                     Yeah, the difference here is that ... You're totally right. You can't overlook masculine feminine. You can't overlook the biology. There's biochemicals and hormones running through our body that are also informing our emotions and our desires and all of that, and childbirth. Just producing testosterone and seeing it is gonna change your orientation to sex. There's no doubt that's all part of it.

And, there are human beings who authentically, as ... I know, because I'm one of them. I love to be pinned by consciousness, and to be seen, and my partner to tell me in moments, that I'm beautiful [inaudible 00:18:59]. And to feel her literally restrain me and be in charge in a moment, in a sexual moment. That's highly ecstatic for me.

Now to say, "Well wait a minute. That's wrong. That's not it." But the freedom to be able to explore that, and then in the next moment know, okay, now I'm gonna take control. And then you tussle over and pin your partner down, and you're in command. So it's that freedom of exploration. So yes-

Peter King:                          Well let me interrupt you because first of all you're talking about in moments, which I understand in moments we can both express those. But we're also identifying this idea of a core energy or ... That's not necessarily an in moment. It's an essence. It's an identity, right? And so, are there men that completely, deeply identify with the feminine core? And I'm just trying to wrap my head around that, because I can't imagine a man being able to better understand feminine energy better than a mature, evolved woman would. That's ultimately what I'm getting at.

And I'm saying that because I'm wanting to get clarity on what does the new relationship dynamic look like in our evolved world? Because women are ... We are both expressing both of these dynamics.

Justin Pierce:                     We absolutely are. We need to be more aware that we are. That's the piece here. We need to become more conscious, not less of it, as we liberate ourselves. But in order to understand this, and I don't know how many of your listeners or viewers really have researched this at a great depth, but when we use those words masculine and feminine, in a spiritual context, they mean something very concrete. And it has nothing to do with gender, whatsoever. So the origins of these words in ancient spirituality is, essentially we're talking about Shiva and Shakti if you were to look at a tantric perspective. Shiva representing consciousness. So when you talk about, well what's your identity? Well from a spiritual perspective, your identity is consciousness. The light of consciousness, conscious light. It is nothing but consciousness, and that's what spirituality teaches us. We rest in meditation to observe our thoughts, our hormones, our feelings, to identify with the part that has transcended all of that, and at the same time, is that.

So at the most fundamental level, the masculine is pure consciousness and nothing else. The most fundamental level. And people who do this path, you build an intimate relationship. Man or woman, you can build a relationship with your consciousness, because we are all conscious. So that's the first piece.

The reciprocal of consciousness is light, is love's light, as it's described or as my teacher David [inaudible 00:21:59] would call it. Love light. That when you identify with love light, the light of love, you want to wear nail polish and sparkly things, you want to be radiant and beautiful. Are there men in this planet who identify with light and want to shine? For sure. So when you resonate with that more radiant, I need to be seen, I am light, I am love, that's your identification with feminine. And that goes way beyond gender.

Now your gender and the hormones in your body are absolutely going to influence which of those you identify with. Your conditioning are gonna influence what you're identified with. So now we're operating with these conditionings. Are those your authentic conditionings or is that just what you saw in your parents? So all of that comes in as you really dive deeper into the work and get to know yourself more. But the ultimate realization is to understand, you are conscious light. You are 100% consciousness, 100% light, man or woman. And it's how you identify with those parts of your essence, that determines how you navigate life and what you sexually desire. Do you want to be penetrated by the one consciousness, and I am light? Or do you want to be the variety? Do you want to be the light that's shining?

And then as consciousness, as we identify with that, what we want is we want light. We want variety. We want flavors, textures. Because we are not. So that reciprocal is always trying to fuse itself through us. And you can ... Practitioners will learn that circuitry in their own body. So you can be whole unto yourself, without a partner. And we learn to do it with a partner, where one of us chooses to identify with consciousness, and one of us chooses to identify with light, so that we may know ourselves whole in partnership. That's really the ancient sources of these teachings.

Peter King:                          Yeah. I'm looking at where we're at culturally, and I think it's super helpful to start to bring this more into awareness like you were talking about, so that people have a tangible model to emulate and to bounce off against if you will.

But I had another question. You were starting to go ... I wanted you to finish. You were talking about pillar one being presence, pillar two being polarity. So once people are present and they establish consciousness and light, and achieve that sense of polarity, then what do you walk them through? What's the third pillar in your book?

Justin Pierce:                     Third pillar in the book is devotion. And that's, devotion is how we show up, not just to the present moment, but how we show up in the face of challenge, and resistance, and things that come up, trauma. And then, how we show up over the course of a long period of time.

Peter King:                          Mm-hmm (affirmative). In the practice. In the operation of the energies, the alpha omega, and putting it into practice? Is that accurate?

Justin Pierce:                     Yes. Yeah, so it comes down to devotion.

Peter King:                          Okay. So, in the feminine experience, one of the things that's come up for me as I've been working with a lot of women is, let's go to the light, for example. So, there are certain women who ... And I think this is a message that needs to be heard by a lot of women, because I think a lot of women struggle with the idea of physical beauty, and that there's only a certain amount of time that they will be in their youthful beauty. And what I try to help them understand is that that youthful energy, and more specifically vaguely the light ... I think a lot of people can understand what that means. When you see an older woman who has the grace of youthful light, there's still an attractive, youthful energy to her, even if she's older, even if her body isn't Victoria's Secret model-esque or whatever. There's still that youthful energy. But you can also see, in young, beautiful women, total darkness, and a total ... You can look at them physically and go, "Wow, they're beautiful," but the energy is just totally turned off.

So, for a woman that's listening to this, how does she, A, become more aware of how much light she either is emitting or not, and B, how does she emit more light? How does she get the fear and the blocks out of the way to be her full, authentic, light self?

Justin Pierce:                     That's a great question, and my partner is 14 years older than me. So my partner's significantly older than me, and what I'm attracted to is a authentic radiance that radiates from the depths of her, and all women have access to this regardless of what the surface exterior is. So a woman would need to get in touch with her inner body, and this is a softening of the area around the cervix, the area around the heart, the area around the throat, find relationship and resonance with this. Literally soften those tissues, and then begin listening to those places, allowing those places to be expressed in life.

And a lot of women have been traumatized and treated horribly, so they don't want to be so bright, because when they are, they attract not only good men, but all of the creeps too. If you shine your light, everyone's gonna see your light. So maybe I'll close my throat, maybe I'll close my heart, maybe I'll close my cervix. So they walk around shut down, because if they open, they could get hurt. Because it's vulnerable to open like that. So I would need to trust this man before my body starts to do that.

That's the practice is ... But if you wait your whole life, for a man you finally trust enough and expect him to open that for you, you'll be waiting forever. He can't do that for you. A woman would need to come into a relationship with herself so fully, and trust her inner love body, London calls it her love body, such that she can be conscious that she's shutting it down at certain times, but when the right man is there and it's the right moment, she has access enough to her sexual body that she could open it right there, and show his presence that light. And that's really what it comes down to.

Peter King:                          What about for a woman who can't even trust herself? Maybe ... You often hear people say, "Trust your feelings." Women are very in touch with their feelings, they have a better ... You talk about the sixth sense that women tend to have, their intuition. What about for that woman though, whose intuition or her feelings has led her into hurt, and pain, and she doesn't trust that anymore? How does she resolve that?

Justin Pierce:                     Well cultivating your intuition is something any woman or man can do, and traditionally women are more adept at that skill naturally. But a woman would need to do her own practice. It's just like any skill that we ... Everyone can swing a baseball bat. Doesn't mean everyone can hit the ball. You have to take the bat and you have to practice. You have to practice. So the same way, and intuitive, would be to come into relationship with those feelings, and intimately practice them. Learn what are they actually saying? Because a lot of the times, what'll happen is, you'll have an intuitive feeling, but then it'll go right to your mind and generate story. And the story is not true. The feeling's true. The feeling's almost always true. But once it goes into the mind, it starts projecting these stories that are often very incorrect and could lead us astray.

So there's an entire art form in the omega arts or the feminine practice. I do these types of practices and London is masterful at this. But you train your body to be able to go in, listen to those signals, and allow that to move and inform you without going into the story of the mind. Second the mind comes in, it's gonna be fear, regret ... All of that comes into place.

So there is a skillfulness that one must achieve. You can't just blindly trust intuition. You have to cultivate it like anything.

Peter King:                          How can you do that in a safe place though, without exposing yourself? Do you have any advice for somebody who can go out and start to practice that, in a practical way without exposing themselves to too much potential pain?

Justin Pierce:                     Yeah. All of this can be done in solo practice. That's often the best way to begin these types of practices, because there's so much unearthing that has to be done. It may not be appropriate for you to do this in front of everyone else for a while, except for maybe a coach or someone who knows how to guide you. But the question you're asking me right now is, imagine we were talking about martial arts and you were like, "What could someone go out and do so that they'd get great at this martial art?" Well, I could say [inaudible 00:31:37], "Throw a punch and a kick." But without proper instruction, you're not actually gonna master the art. This is very much a yogic process with subtleties and nuance, that one would need to be guided through. And the book is a incredible starting point for all of these principles, particularly for women.

And I gotta say, I want to add onto this, this dynamic I'm describing of being an alpha and omega is something that really speaks to women because women understand what it means to have to boot up into the masculine all day, and desperately want to return to their feminine and not know how, or not have access. Men haven't experienced that, because this is a masculine world. We built it, honestly. Historically, men built the world. So it's a man's world, and that's just starting to shift.

So women, are in much deeper relationship with this idea that London and I call energetic agility, what it takes to go into alpha and then go into omega. And why that would be so useful important in your life, and how you wouldn't want ... The women I work with don't want to let go of their purpose. They love kicking ass in the world. They love having that identification in their life and getting up and being in charge, being a lead. Because they want to create beautiful things. And, they want to be able to soften at the end of the day, and drop into a man's presence who's capable of holding them.

So there's a lot of cultivation that goes on. And I think it's gonna take men another 20 years before they really start to see how evolved women have become in this capacity, and they're gonna continue to evolve, because they need to find feminine and masculine, whereas men haven't really needed to cultivate feminine. They just ... Burning Man would be the expression of men cultivating their feminine. I'm serious. Dressing, flowing, taking drugs ... That's how men are finding out about this, mostly.

Peter King:                          Well, I would say to some extent, the art in men, the creativity in men, music and again art, in whatever shape or form, I think is cultivating feminine to a degree for sure. But I agree with you that there's an evolution here that we haven't fully gotten clarity yet on what that looks like. The women that I've spoken to, who are kicking ass during the day and then come home and want to be able to be safe to open up and to relax into their femininity, it's not only that that space isn't there. It's that they're not fully aware yet, how to even do that. They've been shamed into their masculine energy, either by a father that rewarded them for being tough and being the toughest girl on the soccer field or whatever, or killing it at school, or whatever it was. Or they've been abused, and they've put up walls, and now they have, they're sustaining.

There was a video I saw not too long ago with Matthew Hussey ... I'm sure you know who that is. He's a relationship coach.

Justin Pierce:                     I don't.

Peter King:                          Okay, he's a pretty popular relationship coach for women, as a man. And there was a woman that stood up in one of his programs and said, "I want to know that I can do it. I want to go out and show that I can do it." And his response was, "That's great, but it's weak." She's like, "What do you mean it's weak? It's strong." He said, "Well the weakest thing is a woman going out saying, 'I can't do it at all, you have to rescue me, you've gotta do it for me.' That's the weakest. The next level up from that is, 'I can do it myself.'" And then he said, "But there's a level above that, which is, 'I can do it, but it's much more fun if you do it with me, or for me, or in [inaudible 00:35:34] together.'" And that I think is the dynamic that a lot of strong women are needing to better learn.

I look at it and I say, "A lot of very strong women act like adolescent males." Where they go out, they kick ass during the day, but it's almost for a sense of validation. And then, when they go to ... When it's time for them to actually open up or when their heart's going, "But you're really feminine, and you need to be in this place, this home pace," they don't know how to. They feel wrong for doing it, et cetera, et cetera.

So I see that dynamic a lot, and then I also see men having no clue how to step into that, and be with a strong woman, and honor her in her strength, but also provide her the anchoring and the lighthouse to let her let go and be in her feminine. You're right, that dynamic is ... 20 years might be a little conservative actually. I don't know. We'll see.

Justin Pierce:                     I know. It depends on the type of maps we're using to get ourselves there.

Peter King:                          Exactly, which again is really why I appreciate this conversation, because it's like, well what is the map? We don't even know what the map is. You hear a lot of what's going wrong. You hear a lot of what's not working. You hear a lot of women say, "Where are all the good men?" You hear a lot of women say, "Oh you can't handle a strong woman." To which my response often is, "Why would you tell a man that you can't handle a strong woman?" Men are grown up, at least in my experience, and this is fairly anecdotal obviously. But men deal with competition, we deal with hierarchy, we deal with challenge, all day long. It's not that you can't handle a strong woman, it's just often men aren't attracted to that, at the core. The masculine's not attracted to the masculine, necessarily, in my experience.

So it's how does a man rise up in his alpha to meet a strong woman, let her know it's okay to ... It's, go out and slay dragons. It's awesome. I respect it. But if we're gonna have attraction, if we're gonna have meaningful, sustainable relationship, and you're feminine in your core essence, then that dynamic needs to unfold as well. You know what I'm saying?

Justin Pierce:                     Sure, I think so. As I said, any moments where we encounter both partners in alpha, you're just gonna have resonance and a lot of head-butting. And the greatest gift a man can bring his woman, let's say she's out in the world and she is pursuing something, and she comes home, is his ability to be totally conscious and present with her. And just the degree of his presence and consciousness, no matter what she throws his way, the fact that he's imperturbable by what she's bringing him will out-alpha her. So, your gift to your partner after, let's say they are living that lifestyle, would be, she comes home, she comes in the door, and then immediately you can begin taking command of her. Or you can just begin resting as conscious presence deeper than she is.

And I think what you're describing, it's like, well, some men can't handle a powerful woman, or aren't attracted to that. There's the resonance issue, but also, what I've found that men can't handle is ... Men can handle challenge, they can handle criticism, they can handle all those very masculine things. What I find they are very challenged with is actually, they don't handle emotion all that well. They don't know how to handle a woman's emotions all that well. So often times you can have a totally powerful woman, and normally, behind that power, there's this reservoir of ... And men are just like, "Whoa, what am I supposed to do with this?"

Peter King:                          They're clueless. Yeah.

Justin Pierce:                     So what a man needs to learn how to do is be present with her full tsunami, her full storm, whatever she's bringing. So much so that you can cut through it like a knife. You bring her clarity by showing her you're not afraid of anything she can show you, and only if it's true for you. She would need to feel that you're not going anywhere if she shows you these parts of herself. If a woman feels like she has to hide a part of herself, so that you won't leave or you won't get mad or you won't do this, she won't be able to fully open and trust you at the deepest level. If you could demonstrate, through your presence and practice, that whatever you have in there, show it to me. What have you got? Show it to me. I love you, I'm not going anywhere. The second she can feel that from her partner, the relationship will immediately begin to deepen. Immediately.

Peter King:                          Yeah for sure. There's a reason why these metaphors are the ones that you're using. You're talking about a woman and her storm. One of the pieces of advice I often give men is to understand that metaphor, that a woman is like a storm. A woman is like the ocean, and that men, being in their masculine, knowing that that's ... Operating in their masculine are constantly looking to fix things. And so I say to them, "Would you ever go to the ocean, and see a choppy ocean, and try to fix it?" No. The ocean's just being the ocean.

And that storm ... I guess I'm speaking to some of the men who are listening right now. If you have a powerful woman or any woman really, who's naturally in her feminine in moments, may have emotions that don't seem to have logic. I think Tony Robbins was saying that they're free from the restraints of logic. And so just to meet, to be a lighthouse in that storm ... You may have seen that picture before where the waves are crashing against the lighthouse and the lighthouse is immovable and it's still shining that light. That metaphor I think is so powerful for men to understand, that sometimes the ocean's gonna be calm, sometimes the ocean's gonna be choppy, sometimes it's gonna be a hurricane. And but no matter what, it's the power of that ocean that gives you life and feeling in the world, which is a beautiful thing if you understand it.

Justin Pierce:                     Absolutely. And I want to add, for the men who are listening, this isn't about hardening up and bucking down and braving the storm and just sitting there taking this punishment. That's not what we're describing at all. It's like, as those waves splash up against and her emotion begins to come at you, men would need to soften their bodies and breathe her in and receive what she's actually giving.

And any moment like ... A lot of our workshops look like this, is just first starting with her giving permission to unveil that emotion. And if a man stays fully present with that, it can turn into intimacy like this.

Peter King:                          Yes. First of all, great point. Thank you for following that up. The second thing that you just said was permission to feel. I think, for the women that are listening to this, especially ones that are not in a relationship and that want to be in a relationship, one of the things that I've seen women do often is they'll make themselves wrong for feeling a certain way. And just having permission to surrender to the feeling in the moment, I think is very liberating for women. Do you find that to be the case, in your workshops and in your practice?

Justin Pierce:                     I teach exclusively from profound permission. A woman, permission for her to be in her full masculine and kick ass, and identify with consciousness, and discipline her mind, and bring that to life. And I give full permission for her to feel fully and surrender fully and know what it is to be held, and be vulnerable. So some people teach from shame and judgment, where you're a man, you need to be masculine. You're a woman, you need to be feminine. It's wrong to do the other. I don't do that model at all, and I find profound success with all of my clients in the model that I use. But I understand that model's not for everyone.

But I have found that when people are given permission to explore the full spectrum of themselves, and be able to learn, they have access to this note, and this note, and this note. A liberation starts to happen in both men and women where they get deeper access to their authentic essence, their authentic core. Absolutely.

Peter King:                          This is one of the questions that was posed on Facebook when I asked some of the people in my circle of influence to ... I asked them what questions they might have. One of the questions that came in was, "what do you see as the greatest challenge that gets in the way of a woman to deeply connect with and accept her man?"

Justin Pierce:                     Well if that person was here asking that question I would let them know that I would need more information about them and their relationship, because it could be a number of things. Could be a lack of trust in the man. It could be that she hasn't fully come into relationship with her own body so no matter what man is standing there she's gonna feel this dissonance with the masculine just in general.

But as a rule of thumb for that individual, what I would strongly recommend is solo practice, is first learning how to open your love body on your own, getting in touch with cervix, heart, throat. What is moving in you? What's your intuition? What's your longing for? What's the yearning that's happening inside of you for? And until you can get clear with that, you won't even know what to ask your man for. And once that starts to open and come online, you begin then bringing that to your partner in a devotional way, in a loving way, in an honest way. And it's only from there you can actually start to deepen the relationship.

So she would need to become totally clear on what it is exactly she doesn't trust in her man, or doesn't trust in relationship in general. Is that on her end? Or is it actually on the partner's end? And then, both partners would need to meet in that mutual space and practice from there to go deeper.

Peter King:                          Yeah. What would you say are some of the common hang-ups that women run into?

Justin Pierce:                     Regarding-

Peter King:                          Regarding their ability to be in a loving relationship, to experience intimacy.

Justin Pierce:                     That they don't trust their men. That they feel like they're better leaders. They'll show up on time and he'll be late. They'll know what's on the calendar, the man won't. They'll know where the restaurant is, they're making plans to go here, they're the one in charge of the bills, because they feel like I can't trust this guy. So in their day-to-day life, little habit by little habit, they're cultivating that ... They're showing up more trustable than their man is. And their man's just like, "Well, she's got it. I'm gonna chill, man." The masculine body orients towards nothingness.

And it's important that as we orient towards nothingness as men, that we do it towards consciousness rather than unconsciousness. Unconsciousness is, "Well let me ejaculate and I can experience some nothingness. Let me drink some beer and experience nothingness. Let me watch some golf or football and I'll just zone out and experience nothingness." Right?

But all of those cultivations for a woman is just like, "Well he's just becoming more and more untrustable. I need to handle this. Now I need to handle this. Are the dishes done? Are the kids gonna" ... So it's that little, little, little, by little, by little, over weeks and months, where she's just like, "I can't surrender to this guy. I don't trust him at all. I don't want him to lead because I can do it better." That's what women feel.

Peter King:                          Yes, I see that a lot. I see that a lot. So, for that woman who's like that that's listening to this ... You've mentioned some practical things. You talk about returning to the body to soften, et cetera. You talk a lot about breathing, in your book, and I'm sure you do that in your practice as well. What does it mean to get back to your breath and get back to ... What does breathing do in the process? Because I've not yet got into full-blown meditation, but I consistently hear that that's a practice that a lot of very successful, fulfilled people do. Why does breath have so much to do with returning to that? To returning to that essence in them? I don't know if that made sense.

Justin Pierce:                     It does make sense. It does, makes a lot of sense. Breath has been used for thousands of years across all different forms of spirituality and meditation, martial art, and particularly in intimacy, you have to remember, you're not relating mind to mind, in a sexual occasion. You're relating body to body. And if you're not breathing past your neck, and you're thinking about emails, and relating from here here here here here, there's no stimulation actually happening body to body. The way we bring our attention down into the lower soft tissues of our genitals, of our thighs, of our feet, of our lower body, you have to begin breathing all the way down. It will literally begin to open this place in your body.

So if you just sit with your partner and look at them in the eyes and both of you aren't breathing, and you're just sitting here like this, it's gonna feel stale and stagnant. It's just gonna be weird and you're like, "I don't ... I'll just look at the TV." But, if you bring eye contact and then suddenly your partner begins breathing down the full force of their body, their stomach's expanding, and you can start to feel body to body connecting, and both partners are then actually entraining their bodies.

And I actually have a friend who's a neuroscientist, from Platypus Institute. He just did a podcast with us regarding the neuroscience behind this work. What they're finding, they're actually training basketball teams now on entrainment. And entrainment is when you're able to synchronize breath, heartbeat, and brain waves. And when you get players or two people in this state, the way that their brains even light up begin to match perfectly. So you're synchronizing your bodies in entrainment, and this will make your sports teams perform better, and so sports teams are catching onto this. But tantric sexual practice has been using this technology for thousands of years, literally.

So, you are with your partner, and you synchronize breath, eye contact ... You do this for a few minutes, your hearts will literally begin beating together. Your brain waves will be in the same state. And then you begin to make love from that place. But if you're just unconscious and not breathing and you're looking at your phone and you put your phone down, and you're like, "Hey, what's up baby?" Her body is unable to access the deep, authentic opening of the cervix that occurs in real deep intimacy.

Peter King:                          You started to touch on, a second there, the opportunity. The opportunity of fulfilling one's deepest essence, if you will. The light within, the consciousness within. If you could just take a moment and just share with people what ... Because you're obviously in the practice of it. You and London are. You're practitioners of it. You're also training other people how to do it. What is the opportunity that people are missing by not tapping into the light and the consciousness?

Justin Pierce:                     Well a level of harmony in relationship becomes possible that isn't possible otherwise. And it's just the same principle as meditation. You come into right relationship with your own suffering and dramas and thoughts. This doesn't mean you don't fight anymore. This doesn't mean tragedy doesn't strike your life. This doesn't mean you're gonna be happy all ... You're gonna suffer. It's the condition of relationship, it's the condition of being in this body, being here. That's part of it. But it puts your suffering in perspective, such that you get perspective on life and relationship, where you can now navigate from a totally different place. And when we identify with that masculine alpha, the eternal yearning we feel is for freedom.

So, at the deepest core level, what the masculine wants is to be free. So whether that means crushing the other team and killing them, there's liberation, fighting, beating the other person, there's a liberation feeling in the body. Earning enough money so you never have to work again, is a pursuit of freedom. It's all of these impulses. How could I be more free? The ability to have more power and influence so therefore you can make more decisions. The freedom to decide. A lot of men pursue all of these things so they could have freedom of choice of what woman they want, so freedom of choice of variety. So all of those attainments are to get to this ultimate goal where they can feel free, like I'm empowered, I am free, I can choose anything. So freedom is that.

What we recognize in spirituality is, you don't need to change anything in this moment to be totally free. You just need to identify with the part of you that is already free. That's what the spiritual teaching shows us, and it's the same in relationship. And then on the other side of the equation when we identify with love light, when we identify with the feminine end, our eternal yearning is for love. So am I loved? Do you love me? Do you still love me? And the feeling is, I want to be loved. I need more love. I need more love. And no matter how much love you pour into that channel, it's never enough. It's never enough, just like no matter how much money we get, it's never enough. No matter how much freedom we experience, it's never enough.

So we have these beautiful reciprocal yearnings for more love, and more freedom, happening all the time. And think about, in just context of a day-to-day fight in a relationship. So a man and a woman get into a fight. If she's identifying with the part of her that's yearning for more love in that moment and he's wanting more freedom, she's gonna be like, "Connect with me," and he's gonna be like, "I need space." So you can see how his need for freedom in that moment would come out, and him leaving this room, and her need for connection would come out be like ... But she might be angry and walk out, but actually want him to come back and get her. Some, not in the immediate moment, but eventually that's the longing.

So when we intimately come to understand that we are all either eternally yearning for freedom or love in every moment, when we hear the demand or quest or preference of our partner, we can have more compassion to it. And at the same time we realize, that yearning's eternal. You're not gonna get that filled by actually that job, or you're not gonna get it filled by this experience or that experience. It doesn't fill. And you learn to come into right relationship with that. And that is liberating as anything.

Peter King:                          Yeah, totally liberating and also just knowing that you're even experiencing it in moments, is mind-blowing. And life-altering. I think a lot of people just ride life in a low frequency and they're not tapping into the potential even in this experience to tap into those deeper levels of intimacy, of consciousness, of light. And I think when you do, even though it's not sustainable infinitely, at least in this human experience on this human plane, just tapping into that can be life-altering. I've experienced it and it's incredible. Just the love of your children, and you're gonna get into that stage here in a minute. It's beyond words. You can't put it into words.

Anyway, we can probably ... This hour just flew by the way. I just looked up and realized we're running short on time. I know you have a hard stop. But any parting wisdom? Actually real quick, somebody who's interested in the book, it's called The Awakened Woman's Guide to Everlasting Love. You can find it on Amazon. You can get it on your Kindle.

Any other thoughts for women that are listening to this, that you'd like to partake on that?

Justin Pierce:                     I absolutely believe that it's up to women to lead this conversation, and they will, because of the experience of these last several decades for women I believe they are more well-equipped to know this new terrain and guide us in this new terrain. I absolutely believe that. And I really encourage them to explore their fullness. What is at their core essence? I don't know what's at your core essence. I don't know what's at anyone's core essence. But explore it to its fullest. Intimately come to understand the depth of you, and your desire, and your purpose in the world, and the way you want to give your gift and your love before you leave this place.

And this book is an invitation to invite those women who are ready for that next step to join in the conversation, and become leaders of that conversation. And I don't know where it's gonna go. We did our best to begin drawing an initial map, to help you get from where you are to that place. And I'm just really, really excited to meet the women who are ready for this, and gonna become the voices that lead us in the next variation of love in relationship.

Peter King:                          Fair enough. I think that's a good parting wisdom. Again, Justin Patrick Pierce, thank you for your time, man, and look forward to the next conversation. There's ten other questions on the top of my mind right now that I want to ask you, but maybe we'll do a third podcast.

Justin Pierce:                     Sounds wonderful.

Peter King:                          All right brother. Appreciate it.

Justin Pierce:                     It was a pleasure. Take care.

Peter King:                          Take care man.