Coming Soon

Coming Soon

Peter (00:00:00):
Welcome to the PK experience. My name is Peter King. I'm the host of the show. And in this episode, I sit down with former NFL football player, Eben Britton, Evan played for the Jacksonville Jaguars for, I believe it was six seasons if I'm not mistaken, but I was interested in speaking to him because in some respects, the NFL really is just a laboratory for pain. I mean, these guys wake up every day, smashing into each other on a year, you know, a daily basis year in, year out. And, um, you know, the question is, well, how do you, how do you deal with that pain? And then you have a tremendous amount of stress to perform at an elite level for an extended period of time. And of course, you're trying to sustain that for as long as you can, but, um, so these guys, unlike other professions, because pain is really a part of their day to day life, um, it's a very interesting, you know, again, laboratory for how do you mitigate that pain?
Peter (00:00:55):
How do you deal with that pain? And so, uh, I came across Evan in the Netflix documentary called take your pills. And Evan was talking about how he used various opioids, which is a, either a synthetic or a natural substance that you can take to help relieve pain and actually makes you feel really good. Um, and how many other NFL players did that as well. And, uh, as well as some other substances like Adderall and things like that to help him focus. And so anyway, I sat down with him and asked him about that. We also got into his NFL career and, uh, and how he got into the NFL and, and the type of pressure that he faced. Um, but I will say this, we didn't, we didn't dive as deeply into the epidemic that I believe opioids really are. I'm in a, kind of new to this whole topic as well.
Peter (00:01:43):
I did post something on my Facebook page the other day, and I got a ton of people that responded, um, both publicly and privately. I spoke to people who, um, had, uh, you know, they were addicted to opioids. And now they're off, I've spoken to people who are still addicted to opioids. I've talked to people, who've lost, loved ones to it. I've talked to medical professionals who use it in their daily practice to help people deal with the pain. Um, I've talked to people who are huge proponents of cannabis or marijuana of which Eben is one. And, uh, so it is a, a much, much bigger deal than I was really frankly, fully aware of. And I'm sort of, kind of getting up to speed on that. But anyway, we get into that in this interview. I'm going to be following up on this just because I think it's such an important thing that I'm now discovering, uh, has really, you know, it's, it's my understanding that's, you know, at, at epidemic levels, as far as the addiction goes, cause people, you know, they, they deal with the severe pain and then they're, you know, uh, prescribed opioids.
Peter (00:02:45):
And then the next thing, you know, they're, they're addicted to it because it makes you feel so good. So, uh, heroin for example is obviously an illegal opioid, but it's an opioid nonetheless, where basically it masks the pain to your brain, but it masks the signal to your brain that you should be feeling pain and replaces it with, you know, a tremendously good feeling. So I am not a doctor that is probably the worst, um, definition of what an opioid is, but it's a simplified overview. That's kind of all, you really need to know if you don't know anything about it. Um, so with that, I'm going to dive into the interview, take a, listen, let me know what your thoughts are. And if you have any experience in whatever capacity with, um, pain management, uh, from a medical standpoint or, or because you've actually used opioids and have experience with it, or know other people that have, um, or God forbid, you've had somebody that you've lost because they were addicted to it. Um, I'd love to hear from you because, uh, I do again, think it's a very important topic, but I'm going to leave it at that and let's go ahead and dive into the interview. Thanks again for listening. This is the PK experience in Britain. Thank you for joining us on the call today. I appreciate you taking some time and
Eben (00:03:57):
We were just chatting,
Peter (00:03:59):
Recording here. Just how complex and tragic and interesting and dynamic this entire conversation is around the use of opioids and, and, uh, all the different perspectives on it. So thank you again for taking some time today to chat about this and certainly as an important issue.
Eben (00:04:17):
Absolutely. Peter, thanks for having me. Yeah. So I
Peter (00:04:23):
Learned about you watching the Netflix documentary called take your pills where you basically sort of explain your, uh, experience with the various drugs that you used in the NFL. But before I kind of get into that, what I typically like to find out just a little bit of backstory and who you are, where you came from, what, uh, you know, what was it like gearing up to, to play in the NFL? I mean, I, I have so many different angles of interests, uh, in chatting with you today, but, um,
Eben (00:04:52):
Yeah, for sure. Um, well I was born in New York city. Um, I lived there until I was 10 sometime in my childhood. Um, I was at my grandparents' house in Connecticut and I saw on the local news, they had some clips from jets and giants training camp. And, um, I dunno, it's sparked this, this passion, this vision of, I don't really know what those guys are doing, but I want to do that. I want to pick this calling to, you know, the warrior way of life. And really, I, you know, that's very much, you know, football was just the thing that sort of embodied that for me.
Eben (00:05:45):
But so my mom would never let me play. She was always worried. I'd get her, you know, looking back, thank God she'd been until my freshman year of high school. Um, my mom had moved my brother and I out to California, you know, another sort of destiny, a little quirk, you know, God knows if I would've played football, had I stayed in Brooklyn through my teenage years, but we moved out to LA. I went to a high school, John Burroughs, high school in Burbank, California, where they had a really solid football program. Um, and my going into my freshman year of high school, I had my dad help me convince my mom to let me play football. And, um, you know, I went out for it. Uh, of course I wanted to be a quarterback cause that's where all the glory was. Uh, you know, as far as I could tell that was, that was the position where I was meant to be, um, soon thereafter, you know, coaches because of my size and my authentic ability. Um, you know, coaches were like him. And, you know, if you switch gears and start working on the offensive and defensive line, you could have a really significant future in this game and be grudgingly. I took their advice and made the move about two weeks into that first year, zero glory on the line.
Eben (00:07:24):
And, uh, but you know, I really fell in love with that. And all of my childhood, you know, being, um, you know, a child of divorced parents, a child of alcoholism, all of these different issues, um, always being the biggest kid, always feeling misunderstood. I had a lot of inner rage that I got to bring out on the football field when it was praised. And especially as, as an offensive and defensive lineman, you know, I was, I was praised for how fiercely and how violently I could dominate another individual. And that really appealed to me. And so that began this process, you know, my singular focus, my vision was to make it to the NFL. Um, everything I did, every action, I made everything I ate, you know, every bit of sleep I got, I was dreaming, eating, breathing, football, you know, from extra workouts.
Eben (00:08:31):
My mom had got me a trainer on the side where, you know, after all the football workouts, I'd go a couple days a week and I'd have, you know, our two hour training sessions that were now everything from strength, weightlifting to sprinting and conditioning drills, footwork drills, um, on the field, my mom was also at the time really starting her own path into yoga. I, we have a deep discipline of yoga and our family I'd say, my mom is what you might call a master Yogi. She just got her master's from Loyola Marymount actually. And so along with all of the, you know, strength and conditioning work I was doing, she was also taking me at 12, 13 years old to yoga classes, which helped with my flexibility. It helped with, you know, just it further all of my physical skills, even more so. Um, and so that was my, my constant, you know, everything I did was about playing football, being the best I could possibly be, uh, dominating people on the field, dominating my workouts, sprinting, watching film, just really soaking in every aspect of the game.
Eben (00:10:00):
Um, somewhere towards after my sophomore year, I was on varsity. I started getting scholarship offers from just about every school in the country, division one schools in the country, um, all the PAC 10, uh, Oklahoma, Tennessee, LSU, all those schools. Um, so it was really beginning to materialize, um, this dream, this vision I had. And so I went to university of Arizona. Um, I chose there because they had a great creative writing program, one of the best in the country best in the world, creative writing programs. Uh, they were one of the only schools that offered me that had a creative writing program. Um, I chose Arizona for a handful of reasons. You know, I love the desert or something that really called to me about the desert to some is a great college town, uh, the creative writing program. As soon as I found that out, it was sort of a done deal.
Eben (00:11:00):
Um, and a new coach, Mike stoops, he had just gotten there and Arizona had not been to a bowl game in about 10 years. And I really felt like I could be a part of the building blocks to bring Arizona back to Arizona, back into a winning state of mind. And we did that by the time I left there, um, which I'm very proud of there. You know, it continued my vision, my quest continue that was more harder work in the weight room. Um, more hard work on the football field, watching more film, developing my instincts. And my technique is an offensive lineman through film study and, you know, just watching every NFL game I possibly could and studying the offensive and how they moved, how they played, um, you know, the mindset of football player. And I really, you know, going back to that warrior spirit and know I really, the discipline of football really cultivated that and continued to, I could bring that aspect of myself into the game and there was a place for it.
Eben (00:12:11):
Um, there I had, again, you know, just like in high school where I had this great group of people around me who, um, were very encouraging, very supportive, gave me sort of planted the seed of you could have a long career in this game, if you work hard and you know, you switched positions at Arizona, it was much more the same. I have great people around me who were very encouraging. They said, add, you know, you keep working, you're going to be the guy that's drafted in the first couple of rounds going to the NFL. You're gonna have a great opportunity there in Arizona though, as alignment, correct? Yes, yes. Offensive lineman on the line. Yup. Yup. I played on offensive tackle my whole career there. Right. Tackle my first three years and then one year at left tackle. Um, and you know, again, I had a great, great coaches, great strength coach.
Eben (00:13:16):
Um, I was very well prepared. Uh, and then, you know, that time came, I was, I was a red shirt junior. I had a great season. I had a great career at Arizona. I was very high on a lot of mock draft boards. Um, and I felt I was ready to go. And so I want to add an enter the NFL draft in 2009, one year of eligibility left at Arizona, which I skipped. And then when I got drafted in the second round 39th overall by the Jacksonville Jaguars, what was that like when you found out that you got drafted? Um, you know, it was, it was a huge learning experience for me. Um, you know, I had put so much into it. I had really, you know, have really high expectations for where I thought I was supposed to go. You know, I believe that I was a first round guy and really wanted to be that first round guy.
Eben (00:14:24):
I ended up going into the second round 39th overall, which is still incredible. Um, you know, and, uh, it was amazing, you know, it was a dream come true. It was realizing a dream. It was, um, you know, but at the same time, you know, my immaturity emotionally got the best of me. I was fucking way too drunk. I was pretty much out of my mind as far as how I was talking to the media. You know, I was saying every team that passed up on me is going to regret it. Um, you know, uh, I'm going to be the best offensive tackle ever play in the NFL. Um, you know, and I had a ton of, uh, regret about how that went down, you know, following that, you know, I had a ton of shame and embarrassment because I wasn't able to handle that moment more gracefully this moment where, you know, I was really, I built my self up and my whole life around becoming this thing, getting to this level and I sort of let it slip, you know, I let it go because of my emotional immaturity, you know, that saying Matt to a 21 year old kid at the time, really, I had gotten there because of the chip on my shoulder.
Eben (00:15:52):
And that chip was very present on draft day. Chick came from, by the way, you know, uh,
Peter (00:16:02):
You talked about your folks getting divorced. How old were you when that
Eben (00:16:06):
Seven years old? You know, I think that was something I always, I carried throughout my childhood. You know, it was something that, uh, you know, I always wanted to prove to people how tough, how strong, how much better I was. And that was something that football really fueled and gave me an outlet for. Um, you know, it's taken me a long time to release that. And, uh, I think through my NFL career, through that experience through a handful of very humbling injuries I experienced in my NFL career, uh, you know, that ship really sort of dissipated and really, you know, at the end of the day, it led to my, my release of football, my, you know, seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, my football career realizing, you know, I'd given all I had to the game and there was really nothing more for me to do. And it was sort of the filing away of that shit.
Peter (00:17:13):
Was your father around, growing up, you talked about having him help convince your mother to let you play football. Was he in California? Where was he during your view?
Eben (00:17:23):
Yeah, so dad was in, uh, he was in Brooklyn, still for the first three years of that move. And then finally, you know, he's an artist and painter, um, and, uh, he moved out to California to LA about three years after we did. And he really, you know, he, um, he saw my brother and I through high school and he was always there. He was always, you know, a shining light to my childhood. Jerry, the guy looked up to, you know, for, you know, my, my entire life, my example of work ethic and what it means to be strong, how to support people around you through severe amounts of adversity. There's really a guy that, you know, set that example for me. And I greatly appreciated having him around, you know, he was very close to me through that my whole football process, whether it was playing or getting ready to go to college or even getting, you know, once I got into the NFL.
Eben (00:18:37):
Gotcha. Can you give us a glimpse into the difference in the environment from high school to college, to the NFL, just the increased pressure, the different, what made those environments different? Yeah. Um, you know, high school, it's a game high school, it's a game that's fun. Um, you know, I felt a lot of pressure. I was always, you know, the team leader, the team captain, I was always, you know, the guys would call me the golden child. You know, the guy that coaches really look to respected, appreciated, look to, to carry the energy of the team, you know, to inspire the team. I was always given the pregame pre-practice pep talks. I was always breaking the team. I was always really the, one of the energy fulcrums of every team I'd ever been on in high school. You know, that I get nervous before games.
Eben (00:19:39):
Um, but I didn't necessarily feel a whole lot of pressure. Even as these scholarship offers began to come in, how big was John burrows? Uh, John Burroughs, we were, we were in, we were like division two or three in California at that time, which was one of the biggest schools. One of the pretty competitive, very, very competitive. I mean, we didn't necessarily have the athletes to compete. You know, we were always a record where it was always like five and five, four and six, but we were playing, you know, some of the best teams in Southern California, our league was incredibly tough. We had like hard Canyon high school. These schools are putting out perennial five, six, 10 division, one athletes every year. Meanwhile, I was the only guy going to a division one school out of Berkeley, maybe even the only guy getting a football scholarship. Okay.
Peter (00:20:48):
We're going into Arizona then. Like what, what kind of, what dynamic shifted in terms of your environment and the pressure. And I've always heard, you know, the D one schools as an athlete, they pretty much own you.
Eben (00:21:01):
Yeah.
Peter (00:21:02):
I liked that just already having already that, you know, football, but
Eben (00:21:08):
Yeah. You know, it's, uh, it, it becomes you, you know, this becomes your entire life. I mean, seven, I think my true freshman year, you know, our, our weightlifting workouts started at 6:00 AM. Um, and you know, you're going, you've got, you know, you're basically, you've got school and you've got football. It really it's football and then school, right? Your, every bit of your physical energy is dedicated to practice, um, and producing on the football field meetings, Phil, and then you're going to your classes. Um, and you're, you're doing everything you can, you know, the, the life of the student athlete is sort of a, it's an interesting one in this, this idea of paying college players, I think, is becoming so relevant because people are searching to see, you know, the demand on people's on these young people's time and energy and the amount that they're being exploited.
Eben (00:22:16):
You know, these units, I mean, these universities are making millions and millions, if not billions of dollars on these sporting events. And these players are getting, yes, there's, their tuition is being paid, but it's not nearly enough, you know, for the amount of work and energy that's being put into it for players. Um, you know, I, I frequently didn't have enough money to eat. Um, you know, the, the amount of the stipend was rarely enough to get me through the month. I'm able to pay, you know, rent, get groceries, feed myself from there. It's, you know, you've got nothing left, but, uh, you know, the stress level begins to amp up. I'm still, you know, I was in the flow. I was a warrior. I was, you know, still embracing the, um, the game. I was very lucky not to get injured. I mean, getting injured takes it to a whole other level of, of stress and anxiety as an athlete.
Eben (00:23:28):
First of all. But as a division one athlete, you know, I was lucky I didn't have many significant injuries through college. Um, and so I was, I was still, I was very much willing to be a cog in the wheel, cog in the machine and carry the torch and be the guy be the team leader, you know, do all of that. Um, but they own, you, you know, for four years, it's just school and football and, you know, it's continued, you know, football is very, um, everything about it is about breaking down the individual, you know, it's very militaristic and the psychological approach that they have, you know, it's all about the team who are you really to have any feelings or opinions about what else happens outside of that? You know, how dare you ever do anything to, um, you know, challenge or, uh, de face the, you know, the, the fabric of the team of the organization, whatever that might be that never came into play for me, because I was always, you know, I was always a good soldier, really? Yeah. That was the golden child. I was, you know, it was a place where I was very highly respected. I was very, I was everyone's eyes were always on me as far as you know, how to behave, how to act, how to conduct yourself, how to work.
Eben (00:25:14):
And I took a lot of pride in that. Um, so then, you know, get into the NFL.
Speaker 3 (00:25:21):
Yeah.
Eben (00:25:21):
That becomes even more. So you go to everything you go to, as a rookie, you hear, you know, protect the shield. You're lucky to be here. It's a privilege to be here yet. And you believe, you know, you forget about the fact that, you know, you've put 10,000 hours into getting yourself to the NFL. Like every guy who's made it to the NFL has worked his ass off, you know, shit, blood tears, sweat, you know, to get to that level. And when you get, there they go, Whoa, man, this is about protecting shield, but what does that mean? Exactly. Protect the shield of the NFL, the logo. Yeah. It's about Remember that at all times at all costs because you know, the minute you do something to deface the shields or discredit this or this logo, this organization, that's when you start to cut yourself off from this coming from like the Jaguar staff, or is that coming from NFL, that's coming from NFL, you know, former players coming in to talk, that's coming from NFL office. You know, people who are sometimes players, former players, that's coming from NFL. PA
Peter (00:26:55):
Every team is experiencing this,
Eben (00:26:58):
Every team, every single team, you talk to every guy we laugh. Now we laugh about protect the shield. It's such horseshit. It's like, isn't a shield supposed to protect me. Isn't that the idea behind the shield? And it's no, it's, it's about, you know, they have, they take great, you know, they take enormous, they go to enormous lengths to protect the integrity, the visible integrity, the visible, um, perception of, of their organization, of what football is and who football players are. You know, so
Peter (00:27:47):
I understand to an extent, I mean, obviously there's a vested interest in promoting the reputation of the sport, but, um, are you saying that you experienced times where there was a hypocritical, you know,
Eben (00:28:01):
Well, we're experiencing that now let's talk. I mean, they won't address the issues of concussions and CTE. They continue to refuse to search, seek out these solutions. They don't want to talk about the opiate epidemic and that opiate NFL players in particular, four times as likely to abuse opiates as the average American, they don't want to take into account. The anytime a guy is, you know, um, uh, pulled over for DUI or, um, you know, accused of domestic violence or whatever it might be. You know, there is no, there is just a complete disconnection of that person. That dude is ostracized. He is fucking out of here. He is not a part of this place. And the fact is that all of these sub-concussive and can cuss it pits that we're taking every fucking day to our prefrontal cortex, the hub of executive decision, making mature, emotional thinking of, you know, non fear based action. Decision-making is right here. It's taking the brunt of the damage every single day. And that's it that's because we play football and yet it turns its back on guys constantly. It turns its back on guys, when they leave the week, you know, there is no there's no, you know, uh, parting ceremony there's no and which is fine, you know, it doesn't have to be, you know, a hand holding process, but there needs to be some sort of, you know, back and uh, process for players to begin the transition out of their football lives.
Peter (00:30:05):
Yeah, for sure. I mean it's, it's, it's really, um, sad to see some of these guys. I mean I think I remember, uh, I hope I'm not misplacing this, but I think it was Emmett Smith, uh, and it's just knees breaking down and just, there was no support and there was no, you know, that really just once you're outside of that bubble, it's like, it seems like from the outside perspective that it's totally forgotten.
Eben (00:30:28):
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, Emmett is a fucking hall of Famer, you know, and think about the thousands of guys like myself who are much less known players who are leaving the league and have nothing, you know, you have no there's no, you know, you're not remembered. You're not thought of, you know, in the, in those circles. And so it really is on you the player to know, find those tools to refine, find some community that you can be brought into to sort of begin that healing process. Hold on one second. I'm just going to let my dog out.
Peter (00:31:25):
Yeah. Um, so you're in the NFL, uh, from the, from the Netflix documentary, it said that your first year and your wife was, was saying, you know, she was talking about how that I wish we could go back to that rookie year. Everything was perfect. You know, like you were healthy, you were kicking ass, but, but walk us through what happened when you got injured.
Eben (00:31:48):
Yeah. Well I think I should preface by saying that, um, you know, in college and high school, high school first, there are no pills, you know, if I was sore, but it was really sore. Maybe I would take an Advil here and there, even in college, same thing occasionally. But when I got to the NFL, you know, I remember before our first preseason game, one of the veterans came up to me and we're getting ready still. You know, I'm not, I'm not taking any pills. My body hurts. I'm pretty used to it. Every guy's body hurts. And uh, it's before my first preseason game complaining the Miami dolphins and one of the vets comes up to me. He's like, you get your Toradol shot yet. And I was like, turtle was that he's a teacher and you get your teacher, but I'm like, no, dude, I haven't gotten my teacher yet.
Eben (00:32:55):
He's like, come on, come with me. So we walk her, walk through the locker room, we walk into the training room area and one of our team docs, he's got like a little table and there's a line of some of the veterans and they've got their fucking football pants pulled down. We're on one of their butt sheets and the doc is hitting them with this injection of the Toradol shot. And that was the beginning of, you know, that was the beginning of this idea of, Oh, we need to take things to be at our best here because every single guy is taking pills or taking something to get himself to be at a hundred percent when he steps on the field. So as soon as I am, you know, I better, when I get on that field, I better be at a hundred percent because I know that fire-breathing defensive band is going to have been taking something and feel at a hundred percent. So I guess I need to take something
Peter (00:33:59):
Like you were a step behind or anything like that while you were, while you were not taking anything.
Eben (00:34:05):
Um, I don't know because there wasn't many instances of that, but yeah, yeah. You know, the, I, the thought of that as a player, as an offensive tackle, you know, my job is to protect the quarterback and open up holes for the running back, you know, and I'm playing against the defense event who is a much better athlete than me. Who's faster. Um, who's probably quicker off the ball, so I need to have every, you know, every single tiny advantage I could possibly have for myself. I need to take that measure pressure if you didn't take it. Um, maybe internal pressure, you know, I'd say 98 and 99% of the guys in an NFL locker room are taking some sort of prescription anti-inflammatory every day. Um, just to deal with the Knicks and the soreness. That's not even when you have a severe injury, you know?
Eben (00:35:08):
Um, so I got my, you know, year long prescription of CATA flam, which is a pharmaceutical grade anti-inflammatory and then into sin, uh, what I needed to take it up a notch because that's a little more potent, a little stronger, it'll also give you the it'll also make you should blood if you don't eat with it, which is great. And, uh, you know, and then, so I was taking these prescription antiinflammatories just to get through the day of the next soreness, you know, the constant shoulder and joint pain, you know, your back hurts and your knees hurt and everything hurts. So I'll just, I gotta take my anti-inflammatory and that, you know, it made you feel better. The problem is it's destroying your digestive system and your liver and kidneys. And you know, and then, you know, during the season, if you're a younger guy, as a younger guy, who's not yet, you know, hasn't taken a serious injury, you know, you start getting, you get in a little envelope of opiates right before the game that is for after the game. And you know, every guy gets that when he gets on the plane coming home from the away game. And that was pretty much expected. That was very regular practice
Peter (00:36:38):
For those that are not aware of what an opiate is. Um, can you explain just the overall, you know, what an opiate is opioids?
Eben (00:36:48):
Yeah. So opiates or pain killers like Vicodin, Percocet, Norco Oxycontin. These are all opiates. And basically opiates go into your cerebral cortex is where your opiate receptors are and it goes there and it blocks the pain from coming into your brain. The pain messages get blocked from going into your brain. For me, they never really did anything to ease my pain. They really made my body feel more uncomfortable. They put me on like any emotional hair trigger. So my rage and anger was very much on the surface. I had this uncontrollable irritability, um, you know, and then what I started dealing with more severe injuries. My first really severe injury was my shoulder and drew, uh, dislocated my shoulder twice against the chiefs and I was done for the year. Um, at that shoulder surgery, I got put on opiates and, uh, you know, I was waking up at two, three o'clock in the morning with withdrawal symptoms after just taking these things for three days, prescribed dosages, um, that's a knifing sensation and the gut cold sweats chills, just severe discomfort throughout the body.
Eben (00:38:19):
And, you know, I'd be up from two o'clock in the morning, you know, with this shoulder injury in my arm, in a sling, just sitting up in this recliner in my living room in Florida and you know, totally alone, uh, really it was, you know, it was an awful feeling. These pills, they were, they were horrendous. I mean, they, the side effects I experienced with those were, you know, what I just said, the withdrawal symptoms to severe irritability and anger and rage that would lead to, you know, lashing out at the people who were around me taking care of me. Cause I couldn't time. I couldn't put my shoes on. I couldn't get dressed myself, you know, I needed help to do just about everything. I didn't do anything to help mitigate the pain. No, not for me. I was always like, you know, I still feel the pain.
Eben (00:39:14):
I don't really care about it because I'm turned into a zombie, but you know, as far as the pain goes, it wasn't, you know, it didn't do much for me as far as taking the pain away with your medical staff. And no, because I was just in, in this, you know, guise of, well, um, you know, these are what the doctors give you. This is what the doctor gives you after surgery. This is what they call painkillers. I guess this is how this they're supposed to make you feel. Um, and that's it. And, uh, you know, just, uh, they, they made me feel horrible, um, which, uh, you know, was my experience with them. Um, and so how long were you on them? Um, on and off for, you know, I suffered this back injury, um, going into my second year and I started really taking opiates, you know, sporadically through there to deal with this sciatica I had, which is, you know, because I had pinched, I had herniated the disc in my back [inaudible] and it was pinching my nerve to such an extent that it sends shooting shockwaves of pain through your butt cheek, down the outside of your hamstring, through your tasks all the way into my foot, leading to numbness in my foot.
Eben (00:40:53):
So leading up to my shoulder injury in my second year, I was also at the same time dealing with this herniated disc in my back. And so I was taking opiates like sporadically throughout the week, whatever I could get my hands on them, which was, you know, towards the end of the week on Saturdays, they'd come around and out on envelopes with the opiates for the game. And I would sort of go around the teammates who were abusing them and collect them, um, to get through Saturday night and Saturday walkthroughs to jet before the game. And then I would take opiates before the game, along with Adderall, and then I would take opiates after the day. So, you know, they, they were on and off for my first three seasons, three and a half seasons. Um, you know, until basically I had one too many experiences where I was like this shit, you know, the emotional way. These make me feel, you know, my interactions with family members got to a point where I was like, this is not me. This is not who I am. This, this like explosive anger I have, like, I don't even know where this is coming from. I'd be watching myself screaming at somebody, my brother, for instance, over the smallest thing. And I'd be going, wow, you know, this is these pills, this is what's happening, you know, and as your family and picking up on that too, are they saying this is what's happened?
Eben (00:42:36):
I think they were all just sort of in shock with the whole thing. And at the same time, you know, you're the big star athlete, you know, you're the you're in the limelight. And so there was very much, you know, people were constantly getting out of the way. People were constantly, you know, giving me my space and I don't think anyone was really aware. I think that sure, if people, you know, were conscious enough of what I was going through in my own process, you know, with these injuries and the pills, they might've said something like that or thought something like that. But, you know, I don't think anybody really knew the extent of what I was going through. Um, you know, and really we can get to this later, but cannabis really became my primary source of pain management through my football career. When I started to realize like, Oh, I can consume, I can smoke a little weed and man, it helps you sleep.
Eben (00:43:45):
It really helps ease the pain in my body. It uses the psychological stress and anxiety I'm dealing with, um, that same year dealing with the back injury, leading up to my first shoulder injury where I needed surgery. That's when I started taking Adderall. And what take your pills really highlighted for me and brought me back to was, you know, the opiates made me feel so terrible that I really, it was like, I just need to get away from me. You know, and cannabis really helped get me out of that. But Adderall combining the facts that I believe it helped get me out the pain psychologically, it took me out of this, this pain that I was in that helped sort of energize my body. But it also, you know, from all the sub-concussive hits all the damage I was doing playing offensive line, playing football, you know, my cognitive function at gotten to such a, a steep decline, you know, is constantly in a fog.
Eben (00:44:56):
I was constantly depressed. I was very, I was feeling very low emotionally, psychologically, you know, and I was in a very dark place. And Adderall really helped with me out of that. You know, it helped me focus in meetings. It helped me sort of reengage with my family, with my friends. And then it helped me deal with the pain and took me out of the pain. So Adderall really became that drug of choice for me through football, you know, and I take your pills really reminded me of that experience that I had had, you know, because the opiates were so, you know, I knew intuitively I was like, this shit is not working though. The negative side effects of these pills. It's just, it's not working for me. It doesn't do anything for me. I need to be, I need to stay away from this. And so Adderall really assumed this role of the thing that I lean so heavily on to get me through the day to day process of being in the NFL.
Peter (00:46:07):
Um, so I think it was at one point in the documentary ticket pills, your wife was like, wow, this is great. He comes home. He takes out the trash, he gets things done. It's like, you know, it almost in the beginning part of the documentary, it makes a very compelling case to take Adderall. It sounds like, wow, you get focused, you can get stuff done. Um, what was some of the negative side effects do you taking out?
Eben (00:46:32):
So, um, you know, it became, um,
Eben (00:46:41):
I, you know, I don't, I guess, you know, I was, I was addicted to it in many ways. I was addicted to that feeling of getting things done of production, um, of being able to engage. So, you know, I take my, I take my 70 milligram Vyvanse, which is a time release form of Adderall in the morning. And then it would turn into, you know, by two o'clock I started realizing two o'clock in the afternoon. So I'm taking five minutes around, say six 30, seven o'clock in the morning, right before our first meeting of the day by two, I was like, shit, man.
Eben (00:47:30):
I like don't know what to do with myself. I'm getting so depressed, you know, finding myself, just falling off this cliff. Um, and so I take more, I take another Adderall and I take like a 20 milligram, you know, regular release, let me just close this door. So then I'd take more. And then I'd find myself, you know, towards the later of the later end of the day, you know, by the time, you know, in that that second Adderall didn't really help get me out of that emotional cliff drop, it really just sort of spiked my, you know, the racing of thoughts. It turned it into a very anxiety driven experience. It didn't really help energize me anymore. And so, but I still, I got into this rut to around two, three o'clock in the afternoon and man I'd fall off a cliff and it would be a black spiral into, I don't know what to do with myself.
Eben (00:48:42):
I don't know where to go in a, in a deep depression where nothing, nothing is going to make me feel better. Nothing is going to make me happy, even give me a sense of wellbeing, you know, and that was really, it was, it was incredibly destructive. And that then, you know, the racing mind inability is sleep. You know, I would get severely dehydrated because this stuff really dehydrates your body. You know, I have to start drinking alcohol to bring myself down. I was consuming enormous amounts of cannabis to help try to reverse the effects to counter the effects of the Adderall. And, you know, it just became this cycle. And that's that kept on for the next, from my second year, really through two, three, four, five, and six through the end of my career, or just became this cycle. And I was, I was at this point though, on days, if I didn't have my Adderall, I, it was almost like, what am I doing here? I I'm incapable of functioning without, I would consider that to be a negative side effects.
Eben (00:50:15):
How pervasive would you say Adderall and, and or opiates in the NFL? Is it an epidemic? Is it, is it, is it at crisis level? Um, you know, then guys are very discreet, you know, because we're under this psychological sort of we're in this like psychological, this echo chamber of football, you know, where it's like, everything's good, I'm a football player. I'm, you know, I'm a well to do stand up, man. You know, I am a clean, you know, hard working individual. I don't use drugs. I don't, you know, X, Y, and Z, you know, and so guys are very discreet about it. I would say that, you know, there's this, like I said, 98 to 99% of guys in an NFL locker room are taking some prescription antiinflammatory drugs. I would say from there there's probably a 50% ratio of guys that are taking opiates regularly.
Eben (00:51:40):
And I would say on the Adderall or amphetamine, that that is, that is a growing epidemic in the NFL. And I believe it's because of the cognitive decline of golf players through years and years of constant hits to the head playing this game. There's a high demand for productivity, for, you know, being at your best. There's a great amount of stress and anxiety around that for every guy. You know, when I was in the league at that time, Adderall was kind of new, it was sort of this new thing. And it was also, you know, it's a banned substance by the week, but you can go through this process of gaining a Tue or a therapeutic use exemption through a doctor to be able to take Adderall or other prescription stimulants like Ritalin. And you could take that without failing a drug test. So that's what I did.
Eben (00:52:44):
And I think that's happening more and more. And the more years I was in, it seems like more and more guys were taking, you know, the, the, what I think is really an epidemic among football players in the NFL really among the NFL, because this, this, I think crosses the boundaries to the coaches, the front office people, but the practice of self-medication, whatever that might be, whether it's pills, alcohol, some sort of, you know, pornography or sexual weird sexual practice, something like that, you know, domestic violence, abuse, emotional abuse, you know, I think the practice of self-medication nearly a hundred percent,
Peter (00:53:37):
That's really surprising given how much, uh, you know, how much the reputation holding up the shield matters, you know, to the NFL, how much you guys being a asset to a team, you know, uh, uh, products, uh, part of the, you know, you being an individual product of the bigger product of the team. I'm surprised that there's just not more regulation and oversight from a medical perspective, to make sure that you guys are getting a, what you need, that, that be not more than what you need so that there's, you know, or are they just turning a blind eye because they want you to do whatever the hell you need to do to show up on game day.
Eben (00:54:17):
It's very layered. It's heavily layered. You know, I think there's a lot of that. There's a lot of, you know, there's, there's kind of like a joke around yeah, football players. It's fucking crazy, you know, they're, they're like, you know, warriors, but you know, they're, you know, they're the guys that are the crazy partiers, you know, they're, you know, always surrounded by beautiful women and all of that shit, you know, there's kind of like, it's kind of laughed about, you know, and I think there's a turning a blind eye. There's a, Hey, you guys do what you gotta do, right. There's a, um, you know, as long as you're not fucking killing anybody or hurting anybody or doing any of that, because then, you know, you get sort of ex exile and you're not really given an opportunity. I mean, obviously consequences need to happen. I'm not saying that like, Hey, you know, a guy beats his wife. Let's just fucking shower him with love and crannies. No fuck no, but there's a, there's a process of reintegration of therapy, you know, all these different emotional cleansing, the emotional health that these guys are in need of, that's just not being provided.
Peter (00:55:43):
What's really hitting me right now is, is of course there's never a, there's a saying, there's never an excuse for abuse. And, but at the same time, you're talking about an incredibly high pressure situation, tons of pain medication. You're not in your right mind, you're being stimulated. You're emotionally being stimulated. The rage is not like you said, you're in a fog. So again, not that you would ever justify a abusive behavior, but at the same time, where's the support. Where's the regulation, where's the guardrails, where's the support. I mean, that, to me sounds like,
Eben (00:56:20):
And you're dealing with kids.
Peter (00:56:24):
These are young,
Eben (00:56:26):
Even though these guys yeah. These guys, you know, so they get into their thirties. You know, some of the oldest guys that our football team maybe you'll have a 37, 38 year old on your team, that's just about the oldest a football player. And that's rare, you know, that might be a, a long time veteran quarterback or a kicker. You know, that's like very rare, but you know, the truth is you're emotionally stunted to back to when you were like 16, 17, you know, this is a bunch of 17, emotionally 17 year old men put together in one place. You know, you don't have any tools, any emotional tools whatsoever to age you in this, in the shit that you deal with as a protocol, just your, your,
Peter (00:57:20):
You have experience in dealing with the media. Like, I would just think, especially from an NFL perspective and protecting the shield, that there would be some type of, you know, preliminary program to put rookies through to say, Hey, look, here's how you deal with the media. I mean, do you get any of that? Or
Eben (00:57:35):
They do. I mean, there's a lot of stuff, but you gotta remember like Euro you're a 21 year old kid just realize your dream. You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yep. I got it. I get it. I know how to, what would it take to get through? I'm not sure. You know, that's something I'm really, I am sort of putting the pieces together for myself right now. How do you approach that guy? You know, how do I approach my 21 year old self? And, you know, I think that a lot of what I heard I did, I did take, you know, I wasn't necessarily ready to incorporate it into my life at the time, but you know, a lot of things that I heard, a lot of the things that I, you know, the teaching things that people told me, you know, this isn't going to last forever.
Eben (00:58:34):
You know, all of that, you know, you take slices of it and you take particles of those, those comments that people make to you throughout that time. But like how, how do you really make an impact on a guy? And for me, you know, one way might be that, you know, you're so it's, so it's so ego driven, you know, football and your football experience, especially as a, as a pro football player, as a, as one of the athletes, you know, it's so ego driven. So it's very difficult to sort of, you know, make an impression. But at the same time, you know, you can, um, I went to the NFL PA office last year or last year, a year and a half ago. And it was the first time I'd ever been there. And frankly, you know, as a player, my feeling about the NFL PA was okay, I gotta pay my PA dues because that's what all the veterans tell me I got to do because they protect us.
Eben (00:59:44):
They negotiate on our behalf. That's our union. That's supposed to be our safe house. That's these are the people that are supposed to be there to protect us against the powers that be the NFL. Um, yeah, there was always a disconnect, you know, there was always a severe disconnect of, I don't really feel safe with these people. You know, I don't feel like these people necessarily have my back. And that was definitely true when it came to my, um, when I failed the drug test for Ritalin, my last year in Chicago, and I was handed a four game suspension for Ritalin, which is literally just the cousin of the medication I was taking the treat, the exact same psychological disorder I was diagnosed with. Uh,
Peter (01:00:37):
For those that don't know you, what didn't have access to the Adderall for a day. Yeah.
Eben (01:00:42):
Yeah. So I had, um, we had our bi-week, my bi-week my last year in Chicago was a nightmare. Essentially. I went, we, my wife and daughter, and I, we flew back to LA because my high school was retiring. My Jersey, we were doing a whole ceremony. It was really a great thing. Sometime in there during the ceremony, actually I started having this pain on the lower right part of my abdomen. I'm just like, Oh my God, it kept sort of building. I was by the time the football games started because the ceremony was on the day of the game. I was puking. I was in sweats. I was just in a horrible place. I had to leave. We went back to the place we were staying. I was basically bedridden for the rest of the trip. It was my birthday weekend and my entire family at the house over to our Airbnb.
Eben (01:01:49):
And I can't get out of bed because I'm so ill. And on Sunday, the, they were supposed to leave to come back to Chicago, this pain and not subsided it even maybe gotten worse. I was like, I need to go to the emergency room, go to the emergency room. I been an appendicitis, my appendix ruptured, um, and I needed to have emergency appendectomy. I ended up being in LA for another week, um, was in terrible shape. Uh, came back finally, after a week of that, uh, flew back to Chicago, I'd lost 30, 40 pounds. I mean, I was, I was a disaster and I was at an Adderall. I was out of my Adderall. And of course, as you know, as we talked about going to a day of work without Adderall, I was, I was in capable of that. I couldn't imagine that. So on a day I didn't have Adderall that was out of my prescription.
Eben (01:02:53):
I'd hadn't had time to go refill it. I was in the locker room and I knew one of my teammates was taking some sort of medication similar. I didn't know if it was Adderall or what I went and talked to him. He's like, Oh, well, I've got rid of it. And I said, okay, that's treats the same thing. I was like, you know, even if I do get drug tested, I feel like I'll have a great case. This is a similar medication used to treat the same thing. So I took the riddle in, of course later that day I get drug tested. Um, months later after the season is over, I get a letter from the drug program saying that I had failed a test for Ritalin and that I was going to be given a four game suspension.
Eben (01:03:42):
I call up the NFL PA. Uh, and they're like, Oh yeah, this'll be fine. We'll definitely be able to appeal this. They call me back the next day and say, no, we're not going to let us appeal at all. I was like, well, I mean, that was totally useless. You know, I don't understand you just, you just fucking roll over. What's the point of having a union, a group of people who were supposed to have your back, if they can't even go in and fight for you in a case like this. So that was that story. I ended up getting, you know, I had to take the four game suspension, but I was okay because I was ready to be done. Anyway, I had reached my limit, this football, no, my body had really had it. My mind had had it. I was ready to be done.
Eben (01:04:31):
I'd seen the light at the end of the tunnel that year, you know, with my football career. And so I was able to walk away and, uh, so that, you know, that is just to me, a, a prime example of how the NFL PA continues to feel as players. So anyway, I go with my wife to the NFL PA office because they have this branch of it called replacers trust, which is where they've taken all this money that they've gathered. And they put it towards, um, former player programs. Whether you want to go back to school or you want to maybe go and do like a business entrepreneurial workshop, you can go and do that. You can go to broadcast boot camp. They, you know, they do a little bit to sort of help give you, they give you some options in life after football. You know, there isn't much of this, you know, emotional support that we're talking about, which is one of the issues I have with it.
Peter (01:05:52):
Sure. I actually just in talking to the, you know, my audience and some of the people that responded to my questions on social media, the overwhelming pattern that I saw was that the people that had either been hooked on opioids themselves, or know of somebody that had, or were looking at it from a medical perspective, all of them talked about the psychological component being, you know, obviously the, the void where addiction then starts to fill. Um, so yeah, that to not get any support on that level, I think would be very, or is very tragic.
Eben (01:06:30):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, and the whole time we're at this office in DC, Washington, DC, they flew us out, put us up in a nice hotel room. Um, you walk into the building and you're being, you're taken on this tour around, and there's a very defensive atmosphere of the people working there. Everything is, Hey, man, we always say, this is your building. We just work here. And I'm like, I don't feel that way at all.
Peter (01:07:01):
The people that are working there are saying this to you.
Eben (01:07:03):
Yes. They're saying here.
Peter (01:07:05):
And even on the other side of the curtain, sort of saying like,
Eben (01:07:10):
Yes, there it's funded by the NFL. It's funded by the league. You know, they, um, you know, frankly in the last collective bargaining agreement, the NFL PA our union got steamrolled in negotiations. I mean, the one thing that we didn't give up, thank God, which God knows when this will come. But two extra games that the NFL wants players to play to go to 18 game schedule, which is, would just be absurd. It's already too many games. Um, but so we're taking this tour and everything is very defensive and, and I've gone through this. I'm still currently going through an appeal of my line of duty benefit, which is a post-career disability benefit that I can get from the leak, which I was denied my first time, even though I had a severe back injury that she could say was, you know, physically altering the point that it was career ending.
Eben (01:08:10):
Um, and so I'm appealing that and information. I got through that with the guy who's the liaison for that program to help you from the NFL PA I got incorrect information. I got information that was not fully accurate to the point that it inhibited my process of getting this thing done. And it's like, you have to ask yourself why, and then sitting in front of this guy months later, he's defensive about, yeah, the guy who was the liaison for this line of duty pro program, um, he was, he was very defensive of my wife. You know, being the pit bull that she is, is they're asking everybody all the questions that they don't want to answer. No, none of these people were interested in having the wives, you know, just asking all the shit that the players don't cause there's players were kind of like, Oh, well, that's the way it is.
Eben (01:09:14):
We just have to function within those boundaries. But meanwhile, the wives are like, no bullshit. What's this, how do you do this? How do you access this? Why wasn't my husband given, given this information X, Y, and Z. So having my wife there, and there were some other wives there made them incredibly uncomfortable, but I say all this to get to the fact that we get up to this marketing for the marketing department at the NFL PA, and they're taking us around. We're like, isn't this great, you know, this is where we negotiate the Madden deal, you know, for the video game, you know, all of the merchandise that you guys are on. And we go into this room and there's just like jerseys and bottle and sweaters and video games, gummy bears, you know, soda cans. I'm just like looking at it all.
Eben (01:10:15):
And it occurs to me. It's like, man, every rookie who comes into the NFL needs to come here and experience this and realize that this is no longer a game. This is no longer the family atmosphere. This is no longer the tribe that we've grown up a part of from high school. And even into college, like now people are making so much money off of you, probably more money off of you than you're making off of you still in the NFL. And you need to understand that, you know, this is a business, you know, this is not about, you know, you don't have any more than to really rely on there's nobody in your corner, other than you. I mean, yes, your family, your friends, you've got those people with people that have been around you and you need to rely on those people. But you know, as a player, you need to start taking control over your life from your financial, uh, ability, your financial capability, your understanding of how money works and how your money works and what you want to do with it, and how to pay bills, how to do all the little things that, you know, we've never had to do.
Eben (01:11:40):
And really taking a look at it as this is no longer, I'm just playing football. This is now a business. And I think that maybe that could be an entry point for starting this process of getting rookies young players, to look at their profession in a different way.
Peter (01:12:00):
We were talking earlier about, you know, what would it take to get through to the 21 year old rookie 22 year old rookie? Yeah. I mean, just as you were talking, I'm like, I'm getting kind of pissed off just hearing. And obviously I'm just, I'm hearing your perspective. I'm sure there's other perspectives that I haven't heard this yet. But like the thing that comes to my mind is like, what about just giving a shit? What about just actually having a consequence? What if there was character within either the team organizations or with in the NFL itself to where there was negative consequences for getting out, you know, going over the boundaries instead of constantly, at least from my perception, my obviously very limited perception is, is that there's the, you know, the red carpets being rolled out, it's your product, you know, w we'll let you get away with whatever, you know, you, you kinda have some rough edges here. We're gonna help you overlook that or sweep this under the rug. Like, what if you actually give a shit, gave a shit about somebody as a human being and then let them work within that boundary. I personally, I think that there's profit behind that. I think that's a valuable asset that you could put out that our culture, that society would actually really benefit from as opposed to like trying to just hold up the facade.
Eben (01:13:17):
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Peter (01:13:20):
I think this is more, this is just my opinion, but I think to me it's more than just, Hey, this is a good idea. This is the right thing. I genuinely think it's profitable. I think it's probably more profitable to do the right thing in a real way, in an authentic way. Some guy screws up and have the coach come out and say, look, you know, we have team rules and yeah, he's our star guy, but you gotta, he's a fake, he's part of our family. We're not gonna undercut them by selling them out that way.
Eben (01:13:46):
Right. Yeah, absolutely. And actually taking steps to, you know, help rehabilitate the guy through those consequences.
Peter (01:13:56):
Yes. Especially on the psychological level. I can't even begin to imagine, you know, the cynic is going to go, Oh, Boohoo, you know, multimillion dollar store athlete has problems.
Eben (01:14:08):
Nope. And that is part
Peter (01:14:12):
Of the issue. You know, part of the issue is how pro athletes are portrayed in the media and how, you know, it becomes, you know, it's like you're getting paid millions of dollars. What the fuck do you have to complain about? That's a huge argument for just about 75% of America. It's going, what the fuck is this probably more 95% because you really enter into that the upper 2% when you enter the NFL, as far as your income goes. And so it's like, you know, that's a huge thing. That's a huge issue with this whole thing is getting the outside of the general audience to appreciate this, you know, psychological prison pro football players. Well, I think it really is a reflection of where we are as a society, as a society and what we're willing to tolerate, what we're willing to overlook to get what we want.
Peter (01:15:16):
You know, we all want to go home on a Sunday afternoon and watch guys beat up on each other, you know, and have our team win and all that. But you know, these are real human beings and that, to me, it just comes back to that whole idea of like, we've got to give a shit again about, um, the, the character values. Like what's, what's actually, what is the real product that's being put out there? Is it entertainment? Sure. Of course it's entertaining, but there's a real opportunity here to provide some real clarity and human achievement in human. Um, I don't know if the word I'm looking for is, but just demonstration manifestation of some principles that I think could serve our society. I mean, I know I'm getting off. Absolutely. No, I think you're pinging on something that is a spiritual crux society. That to me is kind of what the bigger picture I was trying to tap into.
Peter (01:16:16):
And I think your story is just a microcosm of sort of what's happening across the board and obviously many different ways, but yeah, you're right. I think there is sort of a spiritual void and in a lot of our culture right now, I think, you know, I've talked to many people that feel that same way too, but yeah, that does come to that psychological component. You know, people helping people through that. I had another call with, uh, with an author who talked about stress and, you know, PTs had another, uh, special forces guy dealing with PTs. And there's just not that psychological component in any type of trauma. So I don't know if it's an American thing or what, but you know, my buddy may I have a podcast mindful warrior podcast. And, uh, my cohost
Eben (01:17:10):
Is this guy, Nathan, Nate Jackson, who played six years in the NFL as well. He's written a couple books, but no, we really call it the football industrial complex, you know, it's this inability to share emotions to share feelings because it's stigmatized. So like you're weak, we can't be anything but fine and good and you know, at our best and you know, that doesn't get us anywhere. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't get us to the next level, if we're just constantly telling everybody, you know, we're good, I'm good. You know, it's all good, you know, because it's not, it's really not, that's not,
Peter (01:17:51):
Yeah. You're tapping into something else. That's really core for me as well, which is really the masculine experience of some of the reason why I was asking you about your father and what kind of role he played in your, in your upbringing. Um, but you're right. What, I mean, what the result is, is what you're saying earlier is that leads to a ton of isolation at time, uh, in authentic, uh, uh, what's the word, um, imposter syndrome where people are putting on a front, but in the, in the late hours of the evening, it's isolation, they're alone. This is specifically with men, at least what I have come across.
Eben (01:18:28):
No doubt, no fucking doubt.
Peter (01:18:31):
Yeah. I get back to that, uh, sort of, um, try, you know, the council firing, you know, where that's one of the things I'm a proponent of is just getting back together to local band of brothers where you guys went and what's going on in your world. What do you, what do you deal with? Like, and let's just be raw, let's put the shit out there. And if you have to, you know, fall apart, fall apart, we're going to pick you back up, kick you in the ass where you need it.
Eben (01:18:53):
Yeah. So it's been a huge part of my healing process, man,
Peter (01:18:59):
Do you have something like that then?
Eben (01:19:02):
Yeah, I actually, I have a men's group meeting that I go to, uh, twice a week and, uh, you know, it's all that, you know, it's just airing our shit out, you know, talking about what we're going through, emotionally, you the fuck trauma, emotional, physical trauma, we've experienced through our, you know, our lives as kids that know I'm putting these pieces together. And it's like, it's the most beautiful experience, you know, and finding that balance because, you know, being a man is not just about being strong and you know, the Hunter and not about, you know, how many chicks you can fucking be with or whatever your, you know, your, your bar of masculinity, you know, it's really about, you know, you're being a spiritual anchor, you know, and, you know, holding some of those feminine qualities and being able to voice your feelings and what you're going through and share that shit, share the struggles that you've been through, because then it's like everyone opens up, you know, we all open up to each other when you hear another man say, you know, I've been through this, you know, I've, you know, to watch another man break down in tears and allow himself to be emotional.
Eben (01:20:29):
Like it's an incredible thing. And I totally agree with you.
Peter (01:20:33):
I define, you know, the ideal masculine as somebody with backbone and heart, and then the wisdom to know when to use them and often in our culture. And we have men that are just all backbone and they're not willing to open up and be emotional or, or, you know, be vulnerable or you have the flip side of that, which I have experienced a lot of, which is it's all hard, but there's no structure behind it. There's no strength. Uh, and so the women around them, you know, a lot, I speak to a lot of guys in relationships where their wives, you know, they're the ball busters, they're the taskmasters and more power to them that I'm not taking anything away from that. There's a lot of women that kick ass and run businesses and all that. But they're also thrills. I don't feel like a woman, you know, I have a man is constantly placating me. So there's that dynamic too. Both of them need the support of the other, the backbone and the heart and that the intelligence, the wisdom though, Oh, here's where I need to step up. Here's where I need to open up and be a little more empathetic or compassionate or whatever.
Eben (01:21:38):
I feel that it's really important. That's where we're going or at least where we need to go.
Peter (01:21:43):
Absolutely. There's a, there's a great, uh, I think he calls himself an economic historian. Uh, his name is, I think it's Niall Ferguson. He's I think he's British or he's got a funny accent, sorry. Yeah. Wherever, wherever you're from. But he talks about the cycle of, of, um, of, uh, empires, like the room or whatever, and how they start out with, you know, abundance. And then it moves into, um, uh, apathy and then it moves into corruption and then it moves into bondage and then it moves into spiritual awakening. And I feel like as a culture, America is really in that, you know, feels like we've been in that apathetic and now like starting to like get corrupt, which, you know, if you follow that cycle, what comes next? It's bondage like, Whoa, let's not do that. We need a spiritual awakening to go let's we don't have to go there. You know, we can just stop that, but I feel that spiritually too. Yeah, absolutely. Um, I did want to ask you before we, before we wrap up two things, number one, just how are you doing overall, physically? Are you, are you getting the support? Do you have, you know, or where are you at as an individual?
Eben (01:23:03):
I'm doing great, man. I'm really well. Yeah. I've got a, I do a lot of work in the cannabis space out here, business. Yeah. I've got a couple of cannabis businesses. I started a CBD company. CBD is the non-psychoactive cannabinoid found in the cannabis plant. It's great for everything from inflammation to anxiety, uh, helping with sleep. Um, how does that get taken? Uh, you can take it as a topical. I take tinctures there's gummies, so it can be eaten. Um, uh, I've also got a cannabis insurance company which provides insurance to cannabis, businesses, everything from product liability to, um, you know, transportation, dispensary licenses, all that stuff,
Peter (01:23:58):
The primary objective with, with your, uh, with that business for medical purposes, or are you just libertarian in it that Hey to each their own? And if you want to go get high, that's your thing or whatever.
Eben (01:24:10):
Um, you know, for me, it's very nuanced. I don't really believe. I think that the recreational aspect of cannabis is a sort of a marketing thing that people don't even people who are using it recreationally are actually getting medicinal benefits from it. You know, whether it's stress relief or, you know, even people who party and smoke weed, it's like, well, I'm sure you drank, you know, a few less, you have a few drinks of alcohol because of your cannabis use, which is helping your liver and kidneys and your whole digestive system and your mind. And I think that that will switch. I think that cannabis is too powerful of a medicine to be sort of used in a recreational way. I think that people, it leads people back to themselves in a way that, you know, many other plant medicines do maybe not as intensely as say silicide or Iowasca my, uh, at the same time, you know, you, it will lead you to a spiritual path through a spiritual awakening.
Eben (01:25:22):
Um, and it's something that I'm very passionate about. You know, I've gotten on this, I do a lot of speaking the cannabis versus opiates versus pills, realm. Um, and I've seen the amount of lives that the cannabis plant has positively benefited from military veterans to, you know, children with severe seizure disorders, uh, to guys like myself, you, um, pro football players, the neuroprotective qualities that our federal government has a patent on cannabinoids as a neuroprotective antioxidant. So that means, you know, they've actually seen through science that's patent 6 million, 630,507. You can look it up on the internet. They found through scientific research that cannabinoids actually help the brain heal following trauma and actually help to protect it from further damage. So not just provide relief, but actual healing as well. They flush out the toxic substances, sort of the cascade of hormones that happen when you experienced a concussion or a traumatic brain injury.
Eben (01:26:39):
There's all these chemical reactions that are occurring in your brain. A lot of which are very toxic. And when they sit in there for a long time, so cannabis actually helps go in there and flush those out helps the brain cells heal, helps create new brain cells, trigger neurogenesis and so on. So I'm very active in, uh, you know, getting the NFL to change their policy on cannabis. Um, and so, so the business side, that's cool, you know, I'm partnered with some great people. Um, my insurance, the cannabis insurance company is called, uh, the green shield. Um, and then the CBD company I work very closely with, uh, it was called Ohio energetics. Um, you know, both are just outstanding, you know, groups of people. However, I've started an organization called athletes for care, which is really, you know, the way I envision it is feeling the void of where the NFL PA fails, which is providing the emotional and spiritual support the athletes need in their transition out of their sports lives.
Eben (01:27:59):
Starting, it really stemmed out of cannabis advocacy. There was a group of us that all came together and have this similar sort of narrative with cannabis and how it had a positive effect on our athletic careers, as well as our lives after them helping us get out of, um, you know, to reestablish ourselves in our life after sports. If I could just ask you really quickly that the mental image that I think probably a lot of people have a bunch of football players sitting around smoking dope. Is that what it is? Or is it, is it holistic? No, it's much more holistic than that. So it starts out of cannabis, advocacy, and education to, you know, a, Hey, this can help get you off of opiates. This can help you deal with addiction. This can help heal your brain. Um, but you know, we are very much holistically founded.
Eben (01:28:56):
You know, we believe in food is medicine exercise to keep your body healthy. You know, cannabis is just one tool. You know, I actually, I, I don't really even use cannabis that often anymore. Um, it really, it got me to where I needed to be. And now I, you know, I meditate, I do yoga, I do Bulletproof coffee and curcumin and different herbs and things like that, um, that help, you know, with my mental clarity, with my overall wellbeing. And so we're very founded in education, um, of these practices, meditation, exercise, nutrition, uh, plant medicine, as tools for getting yourself to a level where, you know, you can regain control of your life. You can feel empowered in your life again. Um, and, uh, we do offer some entrepreneurial programs, support some financial support, investment support. Um, we are putting together the athletes afterlife experience through athletes with care, which is basically like you were talking about getting a bunch of athletes together, um, and going and doing a mountain hike, camping trips, you know, uh, going out to Mount beer, sat in Colorado and doing a two day mountain hike where the camping night in the middle, where, you know, we all just get around the bonfire and share the stories, share the struggles that we're dealing with.
Eben (01:30:40):
Um, you know, the emotions that you feel, uh, you know, what your life has been like in and out of football or sports, because we're we're, we got NHL guys, um, NFL, we've got some NBA players, we've got Olympians, you've got UFC guys. So it's across the board, you know, athletes deal with these types of issues. Um, so athletes for care, uh, which has really brought me back into another community like you were talking about, you know, having a community of people is so crucial to our wellbeing. You know, I just read this book tribe by Sebastian younger. You sure you've read it. Or if not indefinitely, I recommended it's, you know, it's just brought this whole idea of having a community, you know, into scientific terms of how, how crucial that is for human wellbeing. Um, and then I've got my podcast mindful warrior podcast where we bring on former athletes.
Eben (01:31:45):
We bring on scientists, researchers. Uh, we brought on last week, we had a woman who advocates for cannabis for postpartum depression and mothers, and helping to deal with that. We've had psychics and Sharman. So we really about, you know, bringing into awareness, especially of athletes guys like ourselves, these, these holistic healing practices. Now this other way of being, thinking outside of the box, you know, because we're not just, you know, we've found that, you know, as, especially in football, maybe this happens in other sports, but because of the nature of it, you know, you get so entrenched in I'm a football player warrior that it's difficult to see yourself as a human being outside of that. And so our podcast is really about bringing this out. Like, Hey man, we're creative thinkers. We are artists and musicians, yogis, fuck, you know, everything in between we're business minds, you know, we're entrepreneurs, we can do anything.
Eben (01:33:01):
You know, the tools that got us to the NFL are also tools that can help us succeed in life. And so, you know, that's, that's what I'm doing, man. And I'm good, you know, I'm soaking in this, this aspect of, you know, what life is all about, who Evan is outside of being an athlete. Um, you know, I just have gone very, very deep down the spiritual path. You know, I found, you know, going back to the warrior way of being, I feel like, you know, spirituality, you know, this was always something that I was very much into in my life before football and now coming out of it, I can really begin to explore this stuff more wholly. Um, and it's, it's profound what life has to offer. Um, and you know, the, the amount of self discovery and, you know, learning about what I like, who I am, what I want to do with my life, uh, is really, it's been an amazing journey and I'm stoked for this, my life after football.
Peter (01:34:17):
Um, that's really cool. You talked about the creative writing too. And just in general though, the creative element, your grandmother was a, was a, uh, actress.
Eben (01:34:27):
Yeah. Academy award, winning actress, Estelle Parsons. She won best supporting actress for Bonnie and Clyde. Uh, she played Warren Beatty, plays Bonnie or plays Clive. His brother is gene Hackman in the film and my grandmother plays gene Hackman's wife and she won best actress. Yeah. And you know, that was sort of part of my, my lineage, you with my dad. He's also both. My parents are great athletes. My dad was a division one basketball player, turned artists, turn painter. And, um, you know, our sports athletics have always been, you know, I was very blessed to have sort of these two, the union yang of my life, having that masculine and then having that feminine and with football, it really plunged me into the masculine. And, you know, I found coming out of my football career, um, that I was so entrenched in that, that I lost sight of a lot of this feminine energy, energy, a lot of these feminine aspects of myself, you know? And so it's been really great to be able to start incorporating those back into my life. And it's just been so important and integral into my relationships with my family and friends and the people that I surround myself with now. So it's very interesting.
Peter (01:36:10):
Do the last question. How, how do you want to be remembered? Do you have a sense of that yet?
Eben (01:36:17):
Um, I just want to be remembered as the guy who brought a lot of positivity and light into the world, into my, my space. You know, if I can bring some light and awareness into a dark corner, a place that I've been, you know, I think that that's, that's really what I'm here to do.
Peter (01:36:37):
I love that, man. You know, you look at your life and you look at the, the aspiration to be an NFL player and to have that sense of achievement and then to get beyond that goal, you know, and then figure out well what's next. And then to have that attention to be, to bring light to dark places is pretty cool.
Eben (01:36:55):
Yeah. Thanks, man.
Peter (01:36:57):
I really appreciate you taking the time to that. I feel like we could probably chat forever.
Eben (01:37:00):
Yeah, we do our ago.
Peter (01:37:03):
Yeah, exactly. But, uh, thanks again, man. I'll, I'll definitely be checking out your podcast and, uh, I appreciate it.
Eben (01:37:10):
Yeah. Thank you, man. I really appreciate the time. Peter's awesome. Excellent. Thanks.