Coming Soon

www.IntentionQuest.com

Peter King:                         Welcome to the PK Experience. My name is Peter King, I'm the host of the show. In this episode, I sit down with top performing business and life coach, Michael Nitti. Michael was the VP and director of operations at Tony Robinson's business and transitioned to the full time coaching around 2005. Since then, he's coached several top individuals across all types of industries from business to sports and everything in between. I had the pleasure of sitting down with him and talking to him about the spiritual awakening that he had and the vision of a methodology that he calls the trophy effect. The trophy effect is something that he personally walked me through. He was coaching me professionally for some time and it's a very eliminating concept where it helps you see where you're getting in your own way and helps you see, "Oh, I'm creating my own stuck, my own conflict, my own inner conflict and I didn't realize it."

Peter King:                         This methodology is something that I wanted him to share with you and he does so in this call and we also get into how he actually came up with that spiritual awakening, the story behind it and then again, how to go through that trophy effect process so that you can get out of your own way and perform at peak levels. With that, let's dive into the call. Thank you for listening.

Peter King:                         Michael Nitti, thank you for joining us today. For those that are listening, Michael is a life coach and I had the pleasure of working with you, Michael for, what was it? It's been a year plus now, but as a member of Tony Robinson's platinum partnership program, we all get assigned a coach and you were my coach and it's been a pleasure getting to know you. I wanted to share what some of the stuff that I've learned through you with the rest of the world. Anyway, thanks for taking the time today.

Michael Nitti:                    No problem, I appreciate the invitation and was privileged to be your coach for a while there. As you know, when I coach anyone, it's a partnership thing. It's a circling up ... It's just a great relationship where we just talk back and forth and I really appreciate and it was a privilege to be your coach.

Peter King:                         You said the other day, if you get to talk too much that I get to politely interrupt you, so I will take your cue on that if we ever need to do that, but for the most part, whenever you're talking, I'm go in a listening mode. Let's give the listeners a little bit of an overview of how you approach life coaching and maybe, what are some of the common hurdles that people run into where they reach out to you, where they say, "Hey, I'm running into this block," help the listeners better understand what you do and what is a life coach in general.

Michael Nitti:                    Okay, we'll get to the life coach in general thing, I suppose, later, but to answer the first part of your question, what I do is, when a client comes to me, obviously, they've got what you just said. They've got a block, a stop, something they're not accomplishing, something's in their way, maybe they just want more, maybe they're looking for something new. There's something there that they're not able to achieve on their own. Now, they are able to achieve it on their own, but they are looking for a coach to support them through whatever's not working for them.

Michael Nitti:                    What I do, unlike many other coaches, is I don't start creating plans for making that happen. They're pretty smart people, they can make a plan. They probably already have done it. The challenge is, they're not following through. There's something blocking them. There's something that's preventing them. It's not a secret; most coaches know and most people know and even the clients themselves know that they must have some eliminating belief or something from the past or something in their psychology that's preventing them from taking the action they're taking. What I do is I focus on that. We go in and we put an end to whatever it is that's stopping.

Peter King:                         How do you go about doing that?

Michael Nitti:                    First, we identify it, but what's different is, I don't identify the specific stop. This is what happened when you got that divorce or what you made up about that or something like that. Those things were invariably come up, the fact that they had a bad childhood, all those logical things that come up. But, I'm not a psychologist, so I don't really work on those things and certainly don't do any therapies on people. Again, that may come up.

Michael Nitti:                    What I do is we go to the fundamental source of what is causing people to not be effective in their lives and that has more to do with their nature. In fact, it has everything to do with their nature. What I do is, I'm more of a teacher and I actually ... For the first few sessions, we actually point a light on something that, although everybody usually knows it intuitively, in fact everybody does, they've never quite thought about it that way before.

Michael Nitti:                    I bring something out within them by the way I teach in the first few sessions where they get to say, "Oh my God, that's true. This is why I react the way I do. This is why I'm not able to move forward." They see very clearly that they've been living in a certain way of showing up that isn't powerful for them. But, not only see that, they get to see that there's another option and a more powerful of showing up that becomes so crystal clear for them, that it's not like, "Okay, well how do I do that?" No, they just do it.

Michael Nitti:                    It's really that simple and they start taking the action they need to take, but beyond that, it's actually, they do all that and take all that action in a very empowered, positive, powerful, intentional way. I reach in and make sure they're in a state where they absolutely feel on fire again.

Peter King:                         Yes, you taught me, and you came to this self-discovery of what you now call, "The Trophy Effect", which is your intellectual property that you build your entire practice around. I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but that's ... You have this idea of the Trophy Effect. Explain to people what the Trophy Effect is and how that helps them get to those fundamental truths that you were talking about.

Michael Nitti:                    Yes, the Trophy Effect is fundamental in what I teach, but there's actually something more fundamental underneath that where we would probably begin there. Then, the Trophy Effect is the dynamic that exists within all of our psychologies, within all human beings as an outgrowth of just being human that usually stands in our way. What I do is I expose the Trophy Effect to my clients. They can also just read my book, "The Trophy Effect", but it's much more powerful when I take them through it personally.

Michael Nitti:                    What the reason why the Trophy Effect even exists and is there that X is a block for all human beings, even people who're very successful. They're somewhere in their life where maybe they're not as successful or they get stuck and understanding the trophy effect will allow them to break free of that.

Michael Nitti:                    Where it all begins is, I begin with my clients by making sure they're clear, it's very fundamental. There are only two ways of showing up in any given moment. As human beings, it's very simple. We're a very simple creature. There are only two ways of showing up. I know that's pretty intriguing for people when I first bring that up 'cause we know, "My God, there's times where I'm happy, there's times when I'm not, there's times when I'm in the middle, I'm annoyed, I'm this, I'm that." So many ... But, those are all feelings and emotions that are filtered through either one of these two ways 'cause there's still only two ways.

Peter King:                         What are those two ways?

Michael Nitti:                    The two ways are: First of all, I like to tell people first of all, start with the first, most powerful way of showing up. The first of the two ways is this most powerful way of showing up and that's how you and I show up when we're totally on top of our game, when we're living on purpose, when we're being intentional, when we're in the flow. When we're just in that zone, where it just seems like it's flowing out of us. Things are going well, we're not afraid of what needs to be said, we're just saying it. We're being it. We're in alignment with spirit and the truth and we're just in that amazing powerful, beautiful state.

Michael Nitti:                    The truth is, we have the ability to create that at any given moment. Problem is, we're not usually there. People are honest about it, they realize, "Yeah, it's great." When they are there, even though they know that they're creating that state, it doesn't seem like they have their hands on the dials and the switches and everything that we'd be able to just cause that in a moment. But, the truth is, we're all responsible when we are being in that powerful state. Who other than us is bringing that to the party?

Michael Nitti:                    Once I get them to see it, it leads to the second way of showing up, which is how you and I ... And the reason why there's only two ways, and that is because you and I are either living in that state, we're bringing it to the party, we're causing it to happen. Or, we're not. That's why there's only two ways of showing up. When we're not, we fall and pray to the second way of showing up, which is known as reaction. Most of us are living in reaction 90 to 95 to 98% of the time.

Peter King:                         Yes, in short, you hear people talk about living their higher self or fulfilling their potential or whatever versus the smaller self or playing small where ... I think you articulate very perfectly there, which is living in reaction.

Peter King:                         First of all, how does somebody know that they're living in reaction? How do you become aware of ...?

Michael Nitti:                    That is a beautiful question. Guess what? By making them aware. 'Cause first of all, notice that other state I was talking about, the more powerful state, is something we all ascribe the pain. We think when you do self-help work to be able to get there. We get a coach to be able to be there. We read books, we do whatever we do because it's not within to think that it's a place we could simply bring to the party in a heartbeat. It's something we have to attain by becoming good at it or maybe become a master of it.

Michael Nitti:                    But, the truth is, the only reason we're not in it is because we are in reaction. The biggest reason why most of us are not in intention more often is we don't own that distinction. It's that simple. We're not walking around ... When we're not in that powerful state and we're in a reactive state, a little annoyed by something, not happy, even all the way into depression, we're just frustrated, we're not in a powerful state. We know we are, we're not blind to that, but we don't call it reaction. We just call the fact that we're not in that powerful state all the time life.

Michael Nitti:                    Many people even argue, "You can't be in that powerful state all the time." When we are in that powerful state, we tend to think, "It's because the right people are present, the wrong people aren't. I got up on the right side of the bed. It's sunny today. People are agreeing with me today." No, you're bringing it. Those may be impetuses, but we're bringing it when we're bringing it. In order to do that, though, we have to catch ourself in reaction. But, if you don't own the distinction reaction, you're just thinking that, "Course I'm in a bad mood. There's traffic. I had that fight with my wife today and the employees aren't doing what I want them to do." Blah blah blah.

Michael Nitti:                    The truth is, even if those things are true, guess what? Those things have shifted you into a reactive state. You don't have to stay there.

Peter King:                         Yes, I find that, when I'm talking somebody who I perceive to be in the reactionary state, is they often give me that response. They'll say, "Of course, how else am I supposed to respond? I got cut off in traffic. Of course, I'm gonna be upset." They don't necessarily ... They're not aware of the distinction of, no, that still is a reaction. How does somebody ... We talk about awareness, of course, so you have to be aware that you're "reacting", but how does somebody then shift into intention to where they're not reacting?

Peter King:                         Let me give you a specific example 'cause this has come up for me lately, that I've heard from other people that they're angry all the time. I've been talking to men who are saying, "I take out my anger on my children. I take it out on my wife or at work. I'm always angry." They're already acknowledging it and becoming aware that their anger is not really proportionate to the environment that they're in, so they acknowledge it, but they're still in that reactionary state. How do they start to shift out of that into, what you call, an intentional, powerful state?

Michael Nitti:                    First of all, to acknowledge it. Even though they're acknowledging they're angry, they're not tying their anger to living in reaction to something. They know they may be reactive; the kids didn't clean up the toys, the wife didn't get dinner on time, they don't feel like she's being a full partner or the kids aren't listening. They understand that they're anger is coming from something where they're reacting to it, but the bottom line is, they don't call it a reactive state.

Michael Nitti:                    What it is, is that it's normal to go into reaction. Step one is to not think, "I'm broken or I must be somebody who's inherently angry or I need to do some work on myself." No, you just simply need to acknowledge that you got shifted into a reacting state and your response, in that moment, was anger. Once you know that, then you have to own the fact that you do have the ability to completely override your reaction with an intentional response that wouldn't be angry.

Michael Nitti:                    Here's how we know we're in reaction: Would you ever be angry on purpose? People would say that you may be strongly intention like, "Goddammit, I told you, you need to get this thing done. You don't listen to me and I promise you, if you don't get that done, there's gonna be hell to pay." That's more intentional and verbally ... Making sure people are clear. Now, if you go all the way to anger with it, it doesn't serve. All it does is scare people and now they're afraid of you and they're going to go into reaction and not be as powerful in what they need to do.

Michael Nitti:                    I'm not saying that we don't be firm. I'm not saying that we don't put out there what we need to have accomplished, especially if we're in charge of something or if we're a leader. But, there's no reason to do it from an angry perspective. Getting back to my question, would you ever really, truly be angry on purpose?

Peter King:                         No, not on purpose.

Michael Nitti:                    Where must you be if you're angry? In reaction. Think about it, would you ever be annoyed on purpose?

Peter King:                         No.

Michael Nitti:                    No, you can only be annoyed if you're annoyed at something in reaction. The truth is, by simply shifting into intention, you override all of these other emotions. But again, it comes back to your question, "Okay, Michael, I get it. How do you do it?" You're not gonna like the answer.

Michael Nitti:                    You just do it. We all have the ability to do it. Go back again to a time when you were in a very powerful, intentional state. You were just in the flow, it was like, "Wow." You were just there. Even if you're not really clear why, although you assume it had something to do with the circumstances or just how you were feeling in the moment or you were just tired of not being that way, you had something that you had to share or you just really had to make your point. But, when you were in that intentional state, when you were in it, totally in alignment with who you are, with spirit, with the greater good, feeling good about yourself, when you were there, who is responsible for you being there? Who's responsible for that?

Peter King:                         You are, yeah.

Michael Nitti:                    You know that, right?

Peter King:                         Yep.

Michael Nitti:                    Nobody didn't come in give you a drug or pump you up. You're there. If you own that and you know you're there, who has the ability to go there at any moment?

Peter King:                         You do.

Michael Nitti:                    You. I know that we don't feel that we do, but we first have to tell the truth and the truth is you can. How am I showing up right now? Intentional, reactive?

Peter King:                         Intentional.

Michael Nitti:                    Is it because I'm on a podcast? Or do you think maybe I just show up this way because I decide I better show up this way?

Peter King:                         I think you decide the second you wake up.

Michael Nitti:                    Absolutely. What am I? You can see me, I don't have my chair, I'm a regular guy. Why can I do ... Why can't everybody else do it? Anybody can do it. There's no reason why you can't shift into an intentional state in a heartbeat because you say so.

Michael Nitti:                    Now, I'll promise you, I have become a master of this and I live in an intentional state 95, 98, 99% of the time. The average human being, I'm not saying I'm not an average human being because underneath it all, I am, they're in reaction probably 95% of the time. If I can be intention 95% of the time, how often do you suspect I'm in reaction?

Peter King:                         Very little.

Michael Nitti:                    No, the truth is, by math, it would probably be 2 or 5%. But, the truth is, I go into reaction as often as anyone else.

Peter King:                         Okay, interesting.

Michael Nitti:                    What's the distinction? How long do I stay there, that's the distinction. See, we all go into reaction. It's normal to go into reaction, it's human to go into reaction. Reaction is actually normal. It is the default setting of being human.

Peter King:                         You brought up a really good point, I think, that I wanna emphasize, which is that if somebody, for example, is in an angry state or whatever state that they're in, that they don't immediately jump to feeling wrong or bad about it. That they first just acknowledge it and accept it, see it. I might be putting a little bit of words in your mouth, but part of what you said was, if I heard you correctly, was to say that you accept it on some level. I find that when people in a reactive state, that if they make themselves real hung about it, they compound the reaction to it. It creates even a deeper reaction, if you will.

Michael Nitti:                    Now, not only make themselves wrong, they don't, they refuse to because where is that come when you're not ... When you're in intentional state, you're in alignment with the truth, with love, with spirit, with the greater good. When you're in a reactive state, you're actually in an ego driven state. You're trying to prove your point, you're trying to make others wrong and yourself right, you're trying to dominate somebody else, even if you're doing it subconsciously, in order to get your way.

Michael Nitti:                    Yeah, when you catch yourself being angry, the first thought is, "I deserve to be angry. They made me angry. They'd have just done what I wanted, I wouldn't be angry." First, you have to understand that there's still ways to get your outcome without the anger. 'Cause all you're doing, when you're in a reactive state, whether it's anger or upset of any kind or even in a sad state or whatever, you're not going to be effective. When you are in an overly reactive state, what are you gonna cause other people to be in? What state are they gonna be in? They're gonna react to your reaction. This is the way most life is happening all day with human beings. Everybody's walking around in a reactive state or wondering why we're not getting things done.

Michael Nitti:                    The truth is ... But, once you shift into an intentional state, again, one of the reasons we stay in a reactive state is that, "I didn't do it, you did it and you have to do it. I don't care what your reason was. You must do this. You've gotta put in the correction. You gotta get the job done no matter what." But, we're saying it in a way ... We're not in an intentional state, we're in a reactive state because we're reacting to the fact that they didn't get it done or they didn't clean up the toys or whatever.

Michael Nitti:                    We're sending people into reactive state. They're now in a reactive state and even if they start to do what you need them to do because you're the boss or you're the father or you're the mother or whatever, you're still not happy about it. They're still gonna be doing what they're doing from a reactive state. But, the truth is, if you catch yourself from an intentional state, you still have every right to put in the correction, say what needs to be done, let the employee that they made a mistake and they need to put in the correction. There's not a thing you can't communicate from an intentional, loving state.

Michael Nitti:                    When you do, what are the greater chances that you're going to cause somebody else to be in an intentional state as well versus a reactionary state? Pretty high. I can almost guarantee you that if you're in a reactive state, when you're communicating with somebody else, they're going to go into a reactive state.

Peter King:                         Yes, I had to experience that often. Even just with my kids, it's ... If I'm tired or I'm upset about something or stressed out ... I'll see it in them and then, I'll realize, "Oh, I'm in reaction, which is why they're reacting to me." It's a wake up call, in that moment, to shift, but yeah. That reactionary state from either my reaction is ... I experience that from time to time.

Peter King:                         Do you think ...

Michael Nitti:                    Here's actually what's going on there, and that is that one of the reasons we don't shift out of reaction right away is we don't own that there's an alternative. We know it intellectually, but we don't know in that moment there's an alternative. Again, we justify it because we don't call it a reactive state. Once we own that we're in reaction, we also own the fact that we have the ability to shift out of reaction and into intention in a heartbeat, why wouldn't you? It's the reason I'm able to shift out of the reactive state I fall into from time to time, as much as anyone else. My wife says something I'm not happy about, something doesn't go the way it's supposed to go, there's traffic and I'm late, computer isn't working, sure.

Michael Nitti:                    It's just that once I recognize it, why would I stay there? I'm going to resolve it anyway. Might as well resolve it from an intentional state. I've taught myself to shift immediately back into an intentional state. Anybody can do that.

Peter King:                         What you just said that you taught yourself, describe the scenario of how you actually got involved with this help self space in the first place. You mention, I think on your website, back when you were younger, aged 32, that you discovered this ability to step into intention, if you will. How did you get into all of this yourself? What ...

Michael Nitti:                    We could go there, but here's just real quickly clarifying it, it's not that I discovered the ability to shift into an intentional state, I discovered the reason why I was in a reactive state. That comes first. Once I was able to see ... 'Cause I wasn't calling it a reactive state, I was calling it life and every once in a while, I was in a better state, but it was random. Usually when I was teaching or something where I felt connected with people, but like anybody else, I was walking around in a reactive state. Even as I was learning about this stuff from the first, original self-help work I did, I was still stumbling and mumbling my way through life like anybody else. Not calling it reaction, at the time, just calling it a time in life where I maybe wasn't as happy or intentional as I was other times; living life, being a normal human being and more often in a reaction than not.

Michael Nitti:                    The way I came up on that epiphany was that I had been doing some self-help work for a couple of years. The reason being, at 28 years-old, again just being a regular guy, working in a regular job, having some good times, but a lot of bad times and just being under stress and whatever human beings do. My wife, at the time, decided that she was gonna run off with my best friend. That put in a very reactionary, suicidal state and I didn't know what to do. Then, one day, somebody at the office came up to me and told me that I had just done this self-help course.

Michael Nitti:                    I didn't even know self-help existed at that time. I was a blind, naïve 28 year-old. He invited me to a course that was an introductory to something called, "The S Training," at the time, which was the original self-help work back in the '70's. I went. I didn't go just on my own. I had to actually act like I wasn't interested and all that shit. I told him I probably wouldn't go 'cause of course I didn't need such a thing, but I ended up going that night 'cause I was so intrigued. 'Cause this is a guy that told me about it was an absolute somebody that I didn't admire at all. Just a ... somebody to put you into reaction very easily, let's put it that way.

Michael Nitti:                    But, since he had done this course, he was actually showing up as a great human being. I was thinking, "What did he do?" I was intrigued, so I went. I did the introductory seminar. I ended up doing the S Training. I was so blown away by it, I became a leader in that organization. I led courses and became a coach, although it wasn't called "coaching" at the time. I was just a teacher and a leader and I led one of their courses that taught other people to show up this way. I was really starting to live a more intentional, purposeful life, but I still felt like there was still something missing. I didn't know what it was, so I put myself through the grind. I did all their courses. I did ropes courses and breakthrough courses and seven days and six days and taught at a high level. But, I was doing it from Ohio.

Michael Nitti:                    One day, I was in Seattle on business and I attended one of their seminars in Seattle. I said, "How cool is this? I'm in another city, I'll visit their seminar." Back in Cleveland, I was the man. I was the leader of the courses, I was seen as somebody who knew of what they spoke, I was feeling my oaths. I got to Seattle and I walked in and I didn't know anybody, obviously. I sat through the course and I realized that, maybe it's just that I just know everybody 'cause I wasn't feeling it there. I was feeling like, "Hello? Don't you know who I am?" My ego was kicking in and I felt a little bit unnoticed and underappreciated and not connected. Wow, I was just taken aback.

Michael Nitti:                    At the end of the day, at the end of the seminar, everybody got up and gave everybody hugs and everything. I noticed nobody's hugging me and I'm like, "Oh my God." I felt like, maybe I was just living a lie. Maybe that guy back in Cleveland didn't really have it all together. Finally, maybe the look on my face, there was this young lady that just gave me a look and a smile and she came up and gave me a hug. It was funny and I gave her a hug back and she goes, "I haven't seen you before." I started talking. Then, it started coming out of me, but it was funny. To make the story short, I realized in that moment that, although nobody was hugging me, I wasn't hugging anyone else.

Michael Nitti:                    That sounds so stupid and so silly and duh, obviously. But, that was such a breakthrough for me that I ... Unless I was in my element, I was waiting. I was in reaction. It wasn't happening in that seminar that evening, what wasn't showing up for me the way I wanted it to be. But, I realized in my heart, I had every ability to walk up to somebody else no matter how much fear was in my ... I was present to or feeling weird. I had the ability to cause myself intentionally walk up to somebody else and I was not doing that 'cause I was in reaction. I wasn't calling it that yet, but that's what I saw.

Michael Nitti:                    I made a decision. I said, "Wait a minute. You jumped off of mountains and bridges and swam with sharks and done all these amazing things and you know it's really truly who you are, but you're not bringing it to the party for some reason. But, now that you know that you can make the first move, there might be something in there about just being intentional and doing that." I went back to my hotel that night and I declared that I was gonna be intentional.

Michael Nitti:                    I went up to the bar/restaurant on the top floor there in Seattle of this ... I think it was the Red Lion Inn. I walked up with this intention to just make a difference. I didn't know anybody, so I walked into the bar and I just said, "You know, I'm gonna do it." I put all my fears behind me and I saw a couple of ladies sitting at the bar and they were like ... They were in a bad ... One was crying and the other one was trying to console her. I just walked up to 'em. I intervened immediately, but you can imagine, from their perception like, "Who the hell are you? What are you doing in our business?"

Michael Nitti:                    But, showed up with so much love in my heart and so much intention around what I was about to say or be or with this desire to cause something great happening with those two, that it just, they got it. They let me in and I just used ... There were no skills involved. There was no trying to be a certain way, I just be'd it. I just ... Within 20 minutes, I found out what was going on with ... This one girl was a relationship challenge and a divorce. I just turned their lives around in 20 minutes. They were empowered and feeling ... I didn't know where the words came from. I spoke intentionally about intention/reaction, but didn't even own those distinctions 'til they came out of my mouth.

Michael Nitti:                    It was born of my intention, the words just came through me. Although I experienced that before, not at this level and not with a couple of strangers. It was like, "Wow." Now, I was unstoppable. I went to the next table, sat down at a booth with people I didn't even know. I started teaching this shit. They were looking at my first like, "Who the hell are you?" But, that was part of the breakthrough. The fact that there was fear, but I was pushing through it. I wasn't gonna let anything stop me from just sharing what I had just discovered.

Michael Nitti:                    I did that and I did that for the next hour and now, I'm really unstoppable. I'm walking up to my hotel room, I couldn't feel my feet touch the ground. I was like, "Wow." I walked into my hotel room and I was just so grateful. I wasn't that into any kind of religion or spirituality. I accepted that maybe there was a higher power, but all the sudden, there was this flash and I just got pulled down into my bed and I went into this space that I now know as the ether. For the next hour, I was treated to a complete reliving of my entire life, taking full responsibility of where I've been a shit. Why my wife left me in the first place instead of blaming her, I got to see all the reasons why if I was her, I would've left me too. I mean, taking full responsibility.

Michael Nitti:                    I got to see that all the reasons why I wasn't being intentional was the fact that I was living in this reactive state, but I was reacting to was all these little pieces of proof that I had accumulated over an entire lifetime that I wasn't good enough. An entire library full of proof that I wasn't good enough. It showed up in every aspect of my life. A lot of what I was doing, even if I was coaching or teaching, it was in order to prove to somebody how good I was. It wasn't real, but I realize in that moment that what I had done that night in the bar is it wasn't to prove to anybody I was great, it was just to make a difference. It was just to cause them to feel love and light and to experience something new. It was completely devoid of ego.

Michael Nitti:                    But, what I really got outta that process, since you asked, was the fact that it became very clear that not only myself, but all of us have this lifetime collection full of little pieces of proof that we're not good enough. In that moment, they showed up for me like ... It was weird. The reason why I wasn't able to see it is, they were showing up like little trophies that I was storing in a trophy case, but normally, trophies would be something you earn when you do something good. I had been earning them for little pieces proof that I wasn't good enough. But, the only thing I didn't see in that moment, I thought it was specific to me 'cause I was in this terrible state about the divorce and all these things. Even though I had been doing good for a couple of years, I saw that I was deeply entranced in that stuff.

Michael Nitti:                    I didn't in that moment realize the exact full effect of the trophy effect, but I started teaching it to certain people. But, mostly people who I ran into who were deeply depressed, who had post-traumatic stress, who had things in their life, abuse as a child. It started worked and I started coaching and teaching from this distinction. It wasn't until I became a formal coach, maybe 15 years later, that I finally realized, working with clients on a daily basis, that everybody had this trophy effect thing going on. Not just people who had traumatic pasts or abuse or things like that or those kinda things.

Michael Nitti:                    That's when the trophy effect was born. It was born of the epiphany I had in Seattle in 1982.

Peter King:                         To be clear, for those that are listening, you had this mental, symbolic image of anytime that you felt that you were not good enough, that you received a little "Not Good Enough" trophy that you had. Not loved enough and didn't belong and failed.

Michael Nitti:                    If I made a mistake during the day, something as small as that, I got to see. I didn't see that that night, but I did see it later as I started realize ... 'Cause when I brought this to people and started working 'em through this process, they all saw very clearly what I had seen. I realized that everybody has it, this is going on with all human beings, that everybody has this trophy effect phenomenon going on.

Peter King:                         Yes, it's such ...

Michael Nitti:                    That's how it was born.

Peter King:                         Such a powerful metaphor to articulate what's actually happening with a lot of people psychologically, that they're not even aware of. I had a similar realization too when I was in ... I went to Landmark, I think you worked with Landmark before, correct?

Michael Nitti:                    That's [inaudible 00:33:20] the S Training did become Landmark.

Peter King:                         I went to a Landmark event in Denver a number of years ago, and one of the biggest takeaways for me was seeing ... It was such an eclectic mix of people. We had a former congressman, a girl that was suicidal, a gang member, well-to-do young professionals, a guy that directed porn, another guy who thought that he was going insane. We had all these different backgrounds and every single one of us, at the root, was dealing with essentially, what you're saying, the trophy effect.

Peter King:                         That, to me, was such an eye opener 'cause, in my own isolated world, I thought my problems were my problems and they were [crosstalk 00:34:04] to me and all that. It allowed me to see, wow, wildly different upbringings and backgrounds and economic resources, and we're all dealing with the same trophy effect, essentially.

Michael Nitti:                    There you go. Once I realized that, that's when I decided that I would write a book and have it ... And be able to just teach it from book form, so I wouldn't have to coach everybody one-on-one on the planet. But, what I also discovered, was that there was a way I could teach it in a way where I can entrap the mind during our conversation, so that the mind wouldn't resist because our survival mind doesn't want any part of us understanding it. It doesn't want us to know that this is going on. It wants ... Because its job is to keep us safe. If we understand the trophy effect and break free, we'll start living this outrageously ... Taken chances, doing what we need to do, walk up to people and expose ourself to being put down. The mind doesn't want that to happen, so the mind doesn't want anybody to know that the trophy effect's going on.

Michael Nitti:                    I couldn't ... I don't just explain it to people. I did a little bit of explaining just now, here, but when I take people through the process, it's actually a bit of a hypnosis process, although it's hypnosis. I actually take people through a process where they get to see very clearly how this is showing up in their life. Once they see, then they're able to let it go.

Peter King:                         Yes, you walked me through experience and ... Such a powerful way to, like you said, you can't deny it. It's so clear and the shift that you can make. That, to me, is the most important piece, is the empowerment. You talked about responsibility a few minutes ago, the responsibility ... For you to find that place of humility to say, "Man, I am responsible for my wife ultimately leaving me," can be devastating, on an emotional level, but it's also incredibly empowering because now you can respond to it. Now, you can actually learn from it, grow in it.

Michael Nitti:                    Disappears all, ever again, ever putting blame anywhere else. Now, is it not mean that there are people doing bad thing and living from their ego and hurting people intentionally and dominating others and even hurting others? Of course that happens out there. You can say that what we should blame for the fact that this thing happened, but we're still all responsible for how we react to it, how we show up in response to it. We could always show up for it in an intentional manner.

Michael Nitti:                    Like I said, I didn't necessarily learn about being intentional during that epiphany, I only learned why I was in reaction. Why we're in reaction is we do fall prey to the trophy effect; it's still up to us now to step into an intentional state. That evolved, for me, over the next few years as I came to realize that there's ... At every moment, we have the ability to show up intentionally.

Peter King:                         Yes, and just to paint the other side of the coin a little bit where you're talking about the trophy effect being that we're giving ourselves trophies for all these ways that we come up short. The other side, of course, to the trophy effect is to start to become aware and start to reward ourselves, give ourselves trophies for how we're actually, truly showing up in our higher self, if you will. Is that accurate?

Michael Nitti:                    Absolutely. In other words, what you discover is that you've been giving yourself these bad trophies and storing in a way in your mind where you're constantly sub-consciously associated to all these bad memories and bad proof that you're not good enough. Then, what you have is the ability, when you go out there and start acting intentionally, is to start acknowledging yourself. We don't acknowledge ourselves in life. I take people through the process and boy, I found they've been giving themselves tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of trophies they discover during the process while they're entire life, for any little thing they do. Make a little mistake, blow off a workout, certainly if something really bad happens.

Michael Nitti:                    But, then, these are all, like you and me, still good people who have accomplished a lot in their life. Nobody comes to me for coaching that is in a really bad state. They're usually going and doing therapy or something else. But, I get people who are ... Maybe they're stuck, but they're still successful. I work with very high level clients, make a lot of money. These people have accomplished something. They've all done wonderful things, but what they find out during the process is, although they have accumulated a lifetime full of these bad trophies and all these bad memories, even though they've done a lot of good stuff, they have not unconsciously awarded themselves good trophies for those things. They simply went ... They just let it go. "Yeah, I did something good. So what?"

Michael Nitti:                    A lot of it has to do with the fact that in the culture, we're conditioned not to be an arrogant asshole. We don't tell people about all the good stuff we've done. We try to suppress that a little bit. Now, there are some narcissists out there who will tell you how great they are in every moment, but, for the most part, we've been conditioned to be humble. But, the problem is, we throw out the baby with the bathwater and we're overly humble and we don't acknowledge our own greatness, our own magnificence.

Peter King:                         Yes ... In full transparency, I think when you and I first started talking, you do come across as very confident and very ... Somebody could perceive it as being braggadocios or something. One of the things I really learned to appreciate about you is that, it's not bragging at all. You're just simply acknowledging that you have mastery in this area or that you have success in this area. It's a matter of self-awareness, self-love to say that, "Yeah, I work my butt of on it and I should reward myself for that by simply acknowledging it." Not from an ego state 'cause I'm trying to prove to somebody, but simply 'cause it is. It just is. I've gotten results ...

Michael Nitti:                    Here's the other reason why it doesn't come off ... First of all, it's not ego. It's just the truth. It's an acknowledgment of my own magnificence, but it's not my magnificence. It's the magnificence we all have the ability to share and to be. We're all born with the same abilities. There's nobody that doesn't have the ability to look into their past, acknowledge the trophy effect, let it go and now, once they let it go, now they're free to step into their own full power, their full magnificence, their own intentionality. I don't have anything going on with me, there's not another human being on this planet that can't step into just as well. In fact, in many cases, much better than me. Just the way it is. They got talents that I don't have.

Michael Nitti:                    But, they're not expressing them fully and every time they fail at whatever they do, they can succeed 15 times, fail one little bit and they're gonna go right back into the, "Oh my God." What I do is, I remove the "Oh my God," and they still fail? Yeah, we all fail, we all make mistakes, we all don't win every single sporting event or ace everything we do. But, instead of falling back into the bad, where we're just full of all these feelings from being in the presence of all the bad memories, we're able to just acknowledge it, break free and step back into our power. Intentionally and on purpose, not stay in reaction to what just happened.

Peter King:                         Yes. This is maybe a little bit of a deeper question, more advanced question, but I have found that sometimes people, when they acknowledge that their drive in life comes from ... Let's take for example, somebody who is very successful. You start to uncover and recognize that the reason why they're so successful is because they're driven because they don't wanna be like their parents or that they don't wanna live in the poverty that they grew up in and that there's a lot of negative trophy effect type things that they're pushing away from, but it's still causing them to live in a reactionary state.

Michael Nitti:                    So well spoken.

Peter King:                         How do you ...

Michael Nitti:                    What we do then ... I like what you're ... I appreciate it. What we're doing then is some of those people that actually try to hold on to some of that [crosstalk 00:41:54].

Peter King:                         That's what I was gonna say. The fear the acknowledgement of that. "No, that's where my drives comes from," and yet, it's also the thing that's keeping them from feeling fulfilled. How do you stay with the drive without the negative reaction?

Michael Nitti:                    Because we make sure they're clear, that although ... They've been hypnotized into thinking that it's their drive. Was it their drive? Yes, we're not doubting that, but once they don't have to have that be their drive, they now are able to fueled by their true intentionality. That is their goal, their passion like, "I'm here to win the championship, not because I feel bad because I struck out in front of my relatives when I was in third grade and everybody ... I never wanna feel that pain again. No, I wanna win the championship 'cause I wanna win the fucking championship."

Michael Nitti:                    They become ... Then, there's nothing to hold them back anymore except their fear of passion, their drive, their intention. But also, not just from an ego perspective, but from an intention to live their life as a demonstration of what's possible, to empower others, to give it away, to be a teacher themselves. Now, it's stuff they never thought possible before or really embrace because they were too ego driven. Now, we take that away from having their ego drive what they're doing to their true intention, their passion, their desire to share love and their knowledge with everyone else.

Michael Nitti:                    There's very few people I work with that don't become some kind of a coach, even if it's just in their own life with their own family once they understand this stuff 'cause all we've ever wanted to do is empower and emblazon others.

Peter King:                         It's such a fine line, but the distinction is massive because, on the surface, you don't really see a difference. You don't see a change. The person who's driven by fear looked very similar than a person who's driven by intention, who's driven by a desire to make an impact and contribute. And for that person to make that shift themselves is monumental because they can actually ... To me, when you're talking about intention, it's choice. You choose it. I was just getting chills when you were saying a second ago how ... becoming aware and just choosing, instead of pushing away 'cause you wanna avoid it, you're simply choosing 'cause it's just who you are. I ...

Michael Nitti:                    Who we are fundamentally, too. It's really who we are. We are intention and love waiting to happen, we've just been blocked by the trophy effect, blocked by our survival mind inventing ego in order to get us by to survive. Most of us are just surviving, not thriving.

Peter King:                         One of the things ...

Michael Nitti:                    Even if we're surviving big time, living in a big mansion with lots of beautiful cars, we're still not ... We're doing it from our ego and from demonstrating something versus ... In other words, it's mostly about us.

Peter King:                         You said a second ago, intention and love and obviously, having the benefit of talking to you for over a year, you talk about the idea of intention really being a masculine energy. Not necessarily men energy, but masculine energy that both men and women can express. Can you touch on that a little from what you talk about in the divine masculine and the divine feminine being the intention and love?

Michael Nitti:                    Sure. First, I do wanna ... We were so close to finishing something up there that I wanna finish up and that is, is that, when I talk about intention and being intentional, it's for the greater good, remember. It's not ... You could rob a bank on purpose, intentionally rob a bank, not for the greater good. That's not in that realm. It's always ... Intention, with what I'm speaking, it has to do with for the greater good in alignment with spirit, in alignment with sharing something in a way that's ... You could be the boss that has to get the product by this afternoon, but that's for the greater good, otherwise the company doesn't thrive and people don't get their paycheck.

Michael Nitti:                    It doesn't have to be that it's all lovey-dovey, but it does have to be in alignment with the greater good. But, it's also not all about you. One of the shifts, when you start living intentionally, it's about giving it away. The reason I'm a coach is I'm gonna give it away. I could not teach enough people what I'm teaching right now. I could not get enough people. Bring me more clients, bring me more people on a podcast. But, we're all that way. This isn't Michael. This isn't just something explicit ... This is all of us. This is what's in our hearts when we break free from the trophy effect, when we break free from the ego. All any of us ever wanted to do was contribute and make a difference.

Michael Nitti:                    It's about ... That's the distinction that drops away. It's not about me. Now, do I still get value? Do I still get to get paid for my services? Do I still get to move into the new house that I'm gonna be moving into two weeks from now and drive my nice little Mercedes? Yes! I do. I love it. It's not about being some humble little spiritual teacher who sits on a mountain and meditates all day long. I think that's wonderful, if that's what you wanna do. But, no, this is bringing true intentionality to the party with an intention to give it away. When you give it away when you're intentional to your employees, to your spouse, to the people you're with and it's not about you anymore. Does that mean you don't get value? No, that's the distinction, but it's over there first.

Michael Nitti:                    Now, by the way, and that is the divine masculine, marries the divine feminine, which is love, but it's more ... The distinctions are ... You ask, so here's the distinction the way I see it. By masculine would be that we step into our full protective, wanting to serve, wanting to make it great ... And in service, by the way, of the feminine, of the divine feminine. It's anyone. Half my clients are men, half my clients are women. But, I'm still always coming from my divine masculine with an intention to own what I'm speaking, to inspire, to empower, to cause other men to step into their divine masculine. Which means, at that point, we take away all of the blame, all of the ... "I would step into my divine masculine more if she stepped into her divine feminine more." No, you go first.

Michael Nitti:                    The divine masculine actually intends to go first. It doesn't listen to the little reasons why it's going on, it doesn't ... Like you say, "If this person did more of this, then I would. Or if my wife gave me more of this then I would." It's like, "No, first you go first, then she'll be inspired to do that." Now, it may be instantaneous like, I have so many men I coach and they get excited about stepping their divine masculine, they go home and they say, "I did it and she still didn't have sex with me that night. Or she still gave me a bad time." Okay, for the last 15 years, you've been a piece of shit, giving her a bad time, being in reaction. You stepped into your divine masculine for one day and it's, "Okay, honey."

Michael Nitti:                    It's funny stuff. But, yes, it's the ongoing thing, but you'd be surprised. You really, truly step into your divine masculine. Again, we're all here to be the hero. That's a good answer as to why you say, "Well, if there's no more drive anymore. If I'm not trying to overcome what happened when I was a kid or prove that I'm gonna be the best, what drives me?" How 'bout being the hero? Being the hero is the absolute, upmost expression of divine masculine. The stepping in ... How 'bout that guy recently that did what he did at the Waffle House? He stepped into his divine ... He said, he just saved his life. People were getting killed, he had to do something, he grabbed the gun. But, I promise you, in that moment, he stepped into his hero mode. He did that from his divine masculine. There was an intent to save the day, whatever it might be.

Michael Nitti:                    This old superhero metaphor and paradigm and archetype is actually true. Does that mean we have to be masculine, over-the-top, strong men that slay all the dragons? Not necessarily from that powerful place, but certainly, we slay the dragons. We do what has to be done. We save the day. That's what drives us if we're in that strong ... But again, it's for others. Do we feel good? Do we get to feel like we're the hero? Yes, but we don't need to get an award, we don't need to ... Awards are nice, I'm not saying we shouldn't get them. But, when you're in your divine masculine, that's what's going on. Again, it's in service of the divine feminine.

Peter King:                         Yes, and I think, when you're ... The distinction, the difference is that when you go slay those dragons, are you doing it to be the hero measured by their reaction of everybody else or are you doing it 'cause you are a hero and it's just what heroes do?

Michael Nitti:                    That's why I brought up the Waffle Guy. If you've seen him on any media lately, he's not getting ... His head's all not getting filled up with, "Oh boy, am I great?" Or whatever. That humility is part of it. It's not a fake humility and it doesn't mean you can't also ... By the way, you have to be driven by knowing you're making a difference. I have zero doubt, when I'm working with a client, I'm so excited when I get a new client 'cause I already know what they're gonna be feeling in five sessions. I already know. There's no doubt in my mind. I'm not giving up. I'm doing whatever I gotta do. Guess what? For the most part, that's about how long it takes before they really get something and feel something different.

Michael Nitti:                    Let's switch it over to the divine feminine. What is the divine feminine then? The divine feminine is, from the female perspective ... 'Cause again, we both share the energies. A man can access both his divine masculine and his divine feminine, same for a woman. But, if we're talking about from the female perspective, the divine feminine would actually be to empower the divine masculine. Women, when they really feel being consumed, being used, why they were put on the planet, when they feel fulfilled, it's when they've shown their light on the divine masculine. They've coached and supported the masculine.

Michael Nitti:                    There's really no problem for the woman to go out there and have their man be the superstar. They're the ones that coached him into it, that supported him in doing that, fed him love and all those beautiful energies to allow him to go out and slay the dragons. I know that sounds a little old-fashioned, so ladies, before you wanna call in and just have me shot, I did not just say that men should go out and save the world and women should be behind them, empowering ... "Go slay the dragons, honey!" No. In fact, it's the exact opposite. If we really wanted the world to work, we would put women in charge and we would just simply serve them by doing everything I said the divine masculine would do. Yes, they would coach us, but from their position of power. A whole 'nother conversation.

Peter King:                         There is a cultural narrative right now that says we've been in a patriarchy for too long. Are you then ... Would you be in support of more of a matriarchy where women were in full control across the board and ... [crosstalk 00:53:13]?

Michael Nitti:                    Absolutely from the divine feminine. Now, here's what it is then. That all of the men step up in their divine masculine in service of the divine feminine. But, it would still be ... This is a whole 'nother conversation for ...

Peter King:                         I was just gonna say, we don't really have time to get into all of that.

Michael Nitti:                    ... [crosstalk 00:53:26] would be the whole distinction of our sexuality because when a man is in his divine feminine, that also includes our natural attraction to the sexuality of the divine feminine to where we're going to comment on their sexual-ness, their attractiveness, whatever it might be. But, not necessarily from an asshole perspective and devoid of pure honor and respect for the feminine. Because, when you're in your divine masculine, you're bringing forth a pure and, actually inherent, respect for the feminine. A divine honor and respect of the feminine.

Michael Nitti:                    But, we don't do that as men, that's why #MeToo is screaming because that hasn't been that we all live in a patriarchy, we have been growing up in a culture where there is no inherent ... It doesn't show up as honor and respect for the feminine. That's been the problem. That's why women are reacting and why they have trouble stepping into the divine feminine to support the divine masculine when the divine masculine has not been treating them very good for centuries. That's their problem. They'd like to. That's women have a challenge. They feel it in their heart to support and empower the masculine. But then, every time they do, the man cheats on them, runs off with another girl, doesn't pay 'em as much as the men, I could go down the list of what women are complaining about.

Michael Nitti:                    It's hard to empower and support that guy whose ego is treating you like shit and being part of a culture that has been taught to diminish and not respect the feminine. That's because we were born into a culture that told us it's okay to do that, so as men, even though men are heart, we feel like empowering and honoring the feminine, we grow up in a culture where I don't really have to.

Peter King:                         I think there's two ...

Michael Nitti:                    I got yelled at a little bit or have though of I'm an asshole, but I can still go up and pinch 'em in the ass if I want to. I was taught that when I was a young kid. Now, that's changing fortunately, but that's where that comes from.

Peter King:                         I see two sides of that where you do have that asshole ... The man, or whatever, that will pinch her in the ass [crosstalk 00:55:36] ...

Michael Nitti:                    Macho, yeah.

Peter King:                         Right, the machismo, or whatever. But then, you also have on the other side, you have the men that are overly sensitive, overly cautious. "Is it okay if I do this?" There's a weakness in that as well. That, to me, is the other side of that.

Michael Nitti:                    Absolutely, you talk to the most feminine women and they don't want any part of that guy. Why do you think so many women like the bad boys? 'Cause they want that strong, masculine intention. They just want it devoid of the disrespect, the dishonor and the unwillingness to honor them as the amazing, magnificent leaders that they are. By the way, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the man who's somewhat softened himself because he is more respectful or honorable of the feminine and has made his masculine energy wrong, for whatever reason. I don't support that, but it's not that guy's in a bad place, but he's actually, probably not honoring his full masculinity either.

Peter King:                         I was just gonna say, if he's intentional, yes, but a lot of times ...

Michael Nitti:                    You typically see it in reaction. It's their reaction ...

Peter King:                         In my experience, a lot of those guys are doing what you were talking about earlier, where they're waiting to get the approval or they're doing things because they want people to acknowledge them or validate them or whatever.

Michael Nitti:                    Absolutely and what we really need is both energies. We need somebody who is able to be strong and masculine, but then surrendering to their softer, feminine, loving energy and bring a full honor and respect for the feminine. There's times where they'll step back into their full masculine, and it's a dance, but it still has to happen with full honor and respect. That's something that's exclusive to what I'm talking about and it's something we have to learn as a culture and we have to teach our little boys. We have to teach our little boys [crosstalk 00:57:12] ... but without emasculating them and without causing them to also honor their full divine masculine.

Peter King:                         I call it ... It's the two energy of backbone and heart. You gotta have structure, you gotta have discipline, you gotta have intention, but you also have to compassion, empathy, love and openness.

Michael Nitti:                    I like it.

Peter King:                         I feel like we just got started and we're actually out of time. I know you have a hard [crosstalk 00:57:39] that we need to honor, so I'm gonna let you go, but ...

Michael Nitti:                    Thanks, I got a coaching client, but I really appreciate you squeezing me in, my friend.

Peter King:                         Yeah, you gotta do your thing. But, thank you so much for taking the time today. I know there's gonna be a lot of people that are interested in hearing more about that. Actually, on that note, where does somebody need to go in order to learn more about you and/or "The Trophy Effect"?

Michael Nitti:                    My website is IntentionQuest.com. It's all about intention. IntentionQuest.com, there you will be able to learn about my book, "The Trophy Effect". If you're not able or even in any inclination to wanna come coach with me then, please pick up the book and I'm available to some degree for coaching, but mostly, I just instruct people to buy the book and we'll go from there. Really appreciate the opportunity, Peter.

Peter King:                         Very good. Thank you, Michael.

Michael Nitti:                    Thank you, my friend. Have a good one.

Peter King:                         Have a good one. Take care.

Michael Nitti:                    Thank you.